Unveiling the Bhagavad Gita: History, Context, and Legends

In this enlightening episode, we will explore:

• A Brief History of the Bhagavad Gita: Discover the origins and significance of this sacred scripture, which forms a crucial part of the Indian epic, the Mahabharata.
• The Time Period of the Mahabharata and the Kurukshetra War: We journey back in time to the era of the Mahabharata, unraveling the historical and mythological context of the great Kurukshetra War that serves as the backdrop for the Gita’s teachings.
• Who Was the Bhagavad Gita Written For?: Uncover the intended audience and the timeless wisdom conveyed through the dialogue between Prince Arjuna and Lord Krishna, addressing the universal struggles of duty, righteousness, and spiritual growth.
• A Story of Vyasa: Delve into the life and legend of Vyasa, the sage who is credited with composing the Mahabharata, and learn about his role in shaping the narrative and preserving the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita for future generations.

Whether you're a scholar, a spiritual seeker, or simply curious about ancient Indian texts, this episode offers a fascinating insight into the Bhagavad Gita's profound teachings and its enduring relevance in today's world. Tune in and embark on a journey through history, mythology, and philosophy.

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Geeta podcast, a modern discussion of the Bhagavad Gita, by and for Western women. A woman's Gita features discussions on the Bhagavad Gita, the timeless classic of Eastern wisdom reinterpreted from the perspective of two female teachers. Your hosts are Nischala Joy Devi, and Kamala Rose, who have dedicated their lives to the yoga tradition. At a time when women's voices are finally emerging, a feminine perspective of the wartime treatise could not be more timely.

Kamala Rose: 0:43

Namaste, and welcome, thank you so much for joining us today for a woman's Gita the podcast. This is Kamala rose. And this is Nischala Joy Devi. We're excited to share this incredible Bhagavad Gita with you and some of our process of translating it into a women's perspective. Today, we want to talk about a little bit about the history of the Bhagavad Gita. How should we frame this in a historical context? Well, to start with, this is something Nikola and I have had many, many conversations about is just how old is this story. And one of the things I've learned over the years of studying the Gita is that it has very ancient roots. But it wasn't all written at the same time. Right. So when we look at the Gita, we're looking at the story of the Mahabharata War, that the Gita is situated in the middle of some of you who have been introduced to the Bhagavad Gita have heard that it's part of a larger poem, that poem being the story of an ancient war between cousins. That's told in the epic of the Mahabharata, the literally the longest poem in the world. It's a story that dates back to 3102, before the Common Era. And it's actually a, a war that's been authenticated or dated by modern historians, to that time, 3102. You know, they found arrowheads and weapons on the plane of Kuru shastra, which is located just north of modern New Delhi, in India. I've actually been there, which is interesting to go and see the battlefield because you haven't, at least I did had an image of this huge place where people had camps and like modern wars, and it was so different. It was just like a, almost like a football field, but a little bit bigger. Because wars in those days, people went home, they did it nine to five, and then they went home to their families. And then they came back the next day. It was like a profession, rather than what we think about it today, where it's, they're there for weeks and months. And in foxholes, and all kinds of things, it was a much more civilized type of war. It's so true. These were professional soldiers and be beyond professional soldiers that were meeting on the battlefield. They were theirs. Their soldiering was really a part of their class or their station in society. What we know is varnas, or the caste system, these were soldiers by birth, right? Not only soldiers by birth, but royal soldiers, princes, the story of two factions of princes. And the Mahabharat is very much of a succession drama, who's going to sit on the throne, the good guys or the bad guys? I think it's important for people to realize it's not same as the wars today. I think that's an very important point. There were princes, and they were born into this war. The people that fight wars today are not born into it. They're drafted into it. They're volunteering into it, but it's not something that is there from birth. Now, sometimes you have military families, where the father was in the military, the grandfather was in the military. And now of course, you can find mothers was in the military and sisters in the military. So it just was a different time. So let's hear more about what kind of time that was. Well, 3102 for us today is over 5000 years ago. I mean, if we could imagine the world, this is called the Bronze Age. And at that time in the world, the basic structure of city states was was just beginning to emerge. So the this this particular conflict over a city state called the Harappan, throne, the legacy of Baretta, the ancient patriarch, you know, this was a rare occasion. This is a city that is established on the banks of the Ganges, it's a, you know, it's a big place to be in charge of, and they are few. Do we know the modern equivalent of that city? Is there one? Wow, well, it would be a smaller city, would it be Delhi? Well, it's close to Delhi. Yes. But a modern equivalent, I hate to say, as might be closer to the little town I live in, in the mountains, which is smaller, you know, does everything smaller and simpler? Just to get an idea? Yeah, yes. I don't think this was a really large city. But we are to understand that for this war, men from all over India, all of the city states that at that time had come and rallied behind. So while the city might not have been developed the way we know cities today, there were an awful lot of people on that football field of Battlefield assembled. But we're in the time where the horse has only just been domesticated recently. Right? So when we hear the story of Krishna and Arjuna, and the chariot, the horse was fairly new on the scene at the time, or the domestication of the horse to be able to pull the chariot into battle is a pretty new development. There are many on that battlefield on elephants. And, as I've told you, before, Nischala there were woolly mammoths were still alive. So amazing. So it might have been right on the outskirts, but I think they were farther north. to warm the around this time period, we're we're talking about the building of Stonehenge. While the early period of Stonehenge, we're talking about the very first old kingdoms of Egypt, the first pyramids are being built. It's still going to be another 1000 years before the prophets of the Old Testament. Really well. So we're talking about a long, long, long, long, long time ago. Yeah, you think about a long time ago, and then think even longer? Well, the interesting thing is that has survived. That's the interesting part. From that we're gonna go, I mean, stones you would expect to, but the written word, or even the spoken word, very difficult. Yeah. Well, it's very interesting, because when you read some of the translations today, there is a new, modern translation out that's wonderful of the Mahabharata written very poetically. And in it Carol, Satya Murthy speaks about the process of translation of the Mahabharata that it was a living poem, it was told to people. Alright, so these are a long time before anything was written down, it was told between people, the ancient story of where the ancestors came from. And this epic battle that was fought, and how the good guys won, and it was handed down from person to person, family to family, so little reminiscent of the bards, isn't it? Yeah. That was sink went around singing, history and news and things like that, because we didn't have the internet. We didn't even have newspapers or radio or television, so that these people took it upon themselves. And I think that's why a lot of it was written in prose, because they could be sung, or at least sing songy and people remember things better when they sing them. That's such a great it. It's such a great example because we, in yoga, many of us do a lot of chanting. We chant before practice, we chant after practice. And there's something that happens when you sing, when you bring a musicality into that you do remember it differently, also unites the right and left hemisphere of the brain, because one is words, and the other is not words. So it brings that and you know, people use the stand, and they still do. I, I imagined, stand in the Ganges, the Ganga and recite the entire bag of a Gita. That was one of the austerities. And one of the practices that a lot of the sadhus did. So all this became song, song, and recitation. In fact, the written word is just coming around, around the same time as the Battle of Gru Shedra. The process of writing anything down and we know especially the Sanskrit language was first heard. And this is a lot a big tradition in all of the Indian texts that they're called Shruti. There, what is heard, and they're heard from, by, by, by those rishis, by those with a subtle meditative understanding and the ability to hear the song of the universe. And the Scripture, yeah, they're getting it from the clairaudience, that, that ability to hear that which no one else can hear. But because of their deep meditation, and their consistent meditation, they were able to draw that from the cosmos, and hear the teachings in that way. And this is really the origin. So this is the this is where the Gita is coming from a remembrance. Right? So the story of the Mahabharata is an old story. So much of the of the Indian corpus of knowledge that we call the Veda is coming from, what Shruti or what's heard. And in the case of the Gita, it's called what is murti? Or what's remembered? Okay, so the Gita is a process in a way of remembering this long time ago, when this ancient war between good and evil happened. And we're to understand we come from the good guys, right? We're part of an uplifting and uplifting presence in the world. So it was a long time ago, a time that is remembered in the Gita. And we do have many verses that Krishna will refer to the long to the way back to the long time ago. And when we're looking at the Mahabharata, we're truly looking a long, long time ago, at a different world with a different way of seeing the world. And a different set of values than the ones we have today. When you say that, it makes me smile, because one of the stories from the Mahabharata that had always struck me as strange, especially in our society, was how the pawn of us took a wife. And when I say that, like that people might correct my English and say, took wives. No, I was correct. They took one wife. And I always thought that this was strange. And again, how women were thought of as objects. The story goes, very simply that the oldest Ponderosa was a gambler. And he was playing a game of dice and he was losing, losing, losing, losing. And finally, the only thing left to put up in her his mind was this beautiful woman. And he then offered her up in the in the game of dice. And this woman, when he brought her back to his mother actually was Arjuna, who actually brought her back. He said, Mom, we brought something and she said, Whatever you brought, share it with your brothers. Now, that comment in today's world, you would have said No, Mom, you don't understand it's a woman. We can't share it with all our brothers. But it was then. So what happened is they all married her. And then they worked out this very elaborate scheme of this one lives with her for this many years and then transfers to that one. But it always struck me again. Why didn't the woman have a choice? Why didn't she say what she needed? Why did someone else dictate to her that she should live with these five brothers? So already, it was standing out that women were not included? Already back? How many 1000s of years did you say? That was 5000 years ago, the days of drought buddy, and they're talking about her, her name was dropping, they're talking about her like she's a parcel or an entity. And if you want to know why we're doing this, you can go back 5000 years to start, and then work up to the future. Yes, you make a great point there initially, that there are there really are no women's stories that you can follow in the Mahabharata where she's able to make any of her own decisions, right? The women are all in relationship to men, you might say, What about aamva? Right? She's, she's a woman who's has a deep level of spite for Bheeshma, the grandfather, right? She, she returns and shows up in the battle as a man, almost as though she had chosen that option out of spite, so that she could be on the battlefield to shoot an arrow at Bheeshma out of her female curse. But, you know, this is one of those complicated stories that we hear in the Mahabharata that I think expresses not only black and white, but all of the shades in between. Right, the Mahabharata has varied in the stories, but what we don't hear is a story of a woman being able to make decisions for herself to drive her own storyline forward. Yes, we hear about women that are someone's wife, someone's mother, somebody's daughter, or worse, like in the Bible with the prostitutes in the Baron, and we've really gotten a raw deal. We've really gotten a raw deal. And I think it's time for us to wake up and put ourselves back in these scriptures, and to create new ones, to create new stories for ourselves. But right now, we're focusing on bringing this ancient scripture up into modern times. And modern times includes women. Now, we are now included in the Scriptures. And that's how it has to stand. You're reminding me nished, Allah, just a quick story, that there was a show that ran a few years ago called before in ers, and it was about time migration, right, ancient Vikings were coming back to present day. And when they landed, here's these, you know, big, bulky warriors with their meses and their big Vikings, and they land in present day, Denmark, and they are sat down in front of sensitivity training videos. So they could learn that today in our world, men get married to each other. Right, we have to be nice to women, we can't dry we can grab hair. And there's no hitting. And these Vikings have quite a learning curve in entering the modern era. And I think about this a lot when considering the Mahabharata in relation to the to the wonderful teachings in the Gita that really come from a different time period. The story of the Mahabharata a long long time ago, esoteric teachings on the immense self on meditation and the realization of that self come from a time periods a little closer. Scholars really date that into the period of the apana shots which is much more in a window somewhere between 500 Before the Common Era and 500 in the Common Era, sometime in that window is when most likely this Part of the Gita was, was written and brought together with the story of the Mahabharata into the texts that we have today. You know, this was another very rich time period, very different from the ancient time. But a time when there were, there were already learning centers established across India, where a lot of new ideas again, were being exchanged. Exciting the Buddha had been in the world and taught Patanjali had been in the world and taught. And so we had a lot of new religious influences, which I know we spoke about on our previous Ahmed also started Yeah, there were only five farmers, all these people you're talking about were reformers, they try to make the older religions more palatable for a newer age. So they all took, I think most of them didn't mean to start a new one, a new religion. But sometimes that happened, but they were trying to reform the old ones and take away some of the superstition and some of the improper treatment of humans. So that all happened around that same time, too. And this is what who I've always considered Krishna to be as a reformer in a way of the ancient Vedic religion, working to bring a more accessible message into the the general population beyond the priests beyond the people who could read. Right. So this is one of the reasons that some some believe it was placed into the Mahabharata was for accessibility. So that as the great story of the of the war, the ancient battle was being recited and shared with future generations, the transcendental teachings on the nature of the self, would also be passed on. Yeah, I think, in some ways was clever in some ways, it might have taken people off a little bit, but we, I think, the important thing to remember is that this is what people did At those times, they didn't have television, they didn't even have movies, or theater, or anything that we have now. So they they stayed together. And they recited these holy poems, or they had someone come in like a bard or somebody that came in and recited them. So many people knew this. At the time, because of the exposure, and then they, they usually the person that was reciting it would stay in one place for three days, and then move on to the next village and recited to that next group of people. So I think there was a lot of the dissemination was not as we think of it today, but I think it did happen in certain ways, don't you? I do. I absolutely do. And it really makes a lot of, you know, what, looking at the history and just how long ago and our, you know, our modern reliance on technology, I It's hard to imagine what it would have been like to have to wait for someone to come and bring news and entertainment to us. Without getting Leah's Yes. Yes. Let them know you're coming. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. You know, can I just like to talk for just a minute about the difference between the Bhagavad Gita and the Yoga Sutras? Because I think there's something that I think sometimes it's confusing to people because in, at least in most trainings, they have to learn one or the other. And I think sometimes people think they're the same. And some people think they're different. Because it's all coming from a basic Hindu yoga, I think they're considered the most, the two most strong yoga texts that you have. And having translated the secret power of yoga as the sutras and now doing the Gita, I can really see the commonality, but also the difference in it. And one thing that we know easily about the sutras, there's no story. It's just presented as these are the teachings and to me, it's it's like a recipe book. To me, you just started at the big And then it tells you the goal in the second sutra, yoga Chitta Vritti, nirodh, aha, that's it. Yoga is the union of consciousness in the heart. Right away, it says that and the rest of it is how to get to that point. So it's pretty clear. I think what what we have to remember or know for the first time, is that this book was specifically what wasn't written as a book, it first of all, it was compiled by Shri Patanjali. And he didn't really write it, he took it from a little different. He took some from the Gita, some from the apana shots, and he just, he just did what he felt was the most important thing for people to know. Now, who were these people, I think this is the crux of it. Who were these people that he was sharing this knowledge with? Well, there were mostly sanyasis, which were renowned seats, who dedicated their entire life, to the realization of the Self. That's their only purpose. They're not the engine for anything else, they don't want a house, they don't want a car. Of course, there were no cars then. But they don't want anything other than realization of the Self. Most of them were wonder were wandering, they didn't even have a home to go to. So this is her and also was the Brahmin class, the priestly class that they were doing and the Brahmins were married, they were not renunciate. It's like the sanyasis. Yet, they also dedicated their life to it, often they were in charge of a temple, or a group of people. And they performed all the rituals from the Vedas at that time. So it was it was two different audiences that we're looking at. The Gita specifically written for the householders that were written for the Cassandra, and the other castes below the Khashoggi was, it was not written for the priestly class, because it refers to things that the priestly class just did not get involved with. And I think this is a good distinction. And we're going to talk much more about how it was geared toward this working class, the, the, the warrior class, and the merchant class, which we have to look at, and how they very skillfully, I think, change the teachings just enough for people to understand them in their walk of life. And I think that, to me, is one of the greatnesses of the Bhagavad Gita. Agree it, it, there's so much rich thought and so much rich teachings on bringing the insight of yoga, which is, as we've talked about, before, it's gained in silence, it's gained in meditation, right? Krishna teaches in many chapters about the importance of meditation, as really what brings the the activism of karma yoga, together, right, we have an understanding of action, an examination of motive, a willingness to serve others and participate in the world. But you can leave out the meditation that helps us to understand where the motive is coming from, and that we can allow the mind and heart to be clear, and free of personal motive, right, this kind of this kind of value of the of being in the world, right, not being away from the world, but actually being present and participating in the world. I know both of us as monastics have experienced a lot of that the value of being away from the world and dedicating ourselves to a life of meditation and prayer away from the world. And working in the world, and working with people and influencing the things that we feel passionate about and things that we feel we can be a part of making better. Yeah, I think monasticism had its place. I'm not sure it's it's as vital in today's world as it was. It seems to me, that the Gita by being present in the world today is hope, helping people be spiritual, right, where they are, whatever job they have, whatever relationships that you have question they have. And I was always saying that this is the time of relationships, this is the time of spiritual relationships, that you really want to get to know who these other people are who this, who, who holds the same spark, as I do in the world, of that, the essence. So I think this it's a really, it's a wholeness, that the Gita is bringing in at this particular time, and the fact that we as women, and I'm talking to all of you out there also, and some men that are out there that are willing to wake up, and really understand that this is our birthright, this is something that we have, and we can do, and will make the world better. I think that's something we don't understand. Many of us think of spiritual practice as a selfish practice. It's only that way in the beginning. For us to strengthen ourselves, it's, it's like the example that I was always given, in beginning of spiritual practice, you're like a little sapling tree that's just been planted. And any animal or any person can come by and easily knock it down. And that's why they put fences around them, to make them strong. But when they become a strong tree, instead of being concerned at being knocked over, they instead allow you to take refuge under them. And I think that's what's happening now in this world, we have to have more and more spiritual people living in the world, to transform it. And to make it into that essence of kindness, and love that we all hope for. I think that's what the Gita can do for us. Establishing a basic, universal human value. I think this is one of the main teachings that I take away from the Gita that regardless of what anyone has done, whether you like it or not, whether you know, whatever your feelings about that person, everyone has a basic human value. And we see this over and over again in the Gita to see a sameness to see that the same is in me, as in you, as in someone who I love and respect someone who might feel neutral towards the billions of strangers in the world. And even those that I find difficult, right, that we that it's important to keep a place in our hearts for everyone. I think there's so accurate in what you're saying. And that's what we're being told in the kita happens when we go into deep meditation. It's not I think this the thought sometimes is that we have to keep cultivating these things, that we have to make ourselves do certain things, that we're not nice people. And we have to bring this in. I don't agree with that. I think that we are wonderful people, most of us know it. But some of us forget, then when we forget, we think we can do things that aren't right for the society. And it's again, there's no bad people. It's just people do bad things sometimes. So here we have, not just a moral value, but we've moved it to a spiritual value, that if you do something to somebody, if you harm them in any way, there's no getting away with it. It's you It's your karma is something that you did that you will always carry with you, no matter what happens to you, no matter where you go. And the more you sit in stillness, the more you realize how you're not in alignment with that spiritual dharma. That is our birthright. And we change and we grow and we don't see the person next to us as something is other we see the person next to us as us there but for the grace of God transforms into their go i because it's not someone else. It's us. And that's really the spiritual essence and then it take it one step further. If it's us, how could we possibly do harm to us? Yeah. Well, I'm gonna have to bring it back to this bloody war half eautiful thought and as Sheila Do you are a bloody bloody war that we also are talking about? Yeah. This is this is the tension in the Gita, not right we have this sublime understanding of who you really are and feeling an empowered presence in the world feeling of value to our participation, a meaningfulness to, you know, to facilitating the world's welfare practicing low costs on Graha that everyone everywhere. But at the same time, this means Gopi up Comelec tell us what that means. low costs on Graha means the world's welfare, right? A way of being where again, it's so beautiful, say the words again, low costs on Graha loca some gras Isn't that beautiful? Yeah, the world's welfare. I love it. Yeah. I think it has so much practical value in the world we live in today. I know we know how this inspired our Juna on the battlefield with Christmas teachings. It's one of the things that helped him to understand it was important that he plays his part. You know, whether we agree with the war or not Krishna is point is you need to play your part in this battle. Right? For us today, we have to take our own meaning from that, and very few of us are soldiers and actually fighting in any in any real battle. But we do have lots of struggles and challenges in our lives and the ability to think of what benefits the world beyond myself. What benefits all of us is a skill that I think that the Gita really teaches us to think about, in evaluating why we're doing what we're doing. Is this just beneficial in the short term for you? Or does this help to make the world a better place? We can see this in so many of the choices we make, you know, the companies we support, the just the way we live weather. So go ahead, question. What did they call it then a righteous war? That's a That's a great question. Why is it a righteous war? And is there a righteous war? We've talked a lot about this. Yeah. Why do they call it a righteous war? Well, the Kisha Tria class, from from its birth, and a time Warren's right, the was the Warriors, the warrior class, that's their purpose is to uphold virtue to do the right thing to make sure that the balance between Dharma or righteousness and a Dharma sometimes is translated as chaos, or corruption, we would say, right, the balance between corruption and ethics, would be Valley would be balanced. So, you know, when we talk about kachelle, Trias, we're talking about what we would call today a military industrial complex. We're talking about police, those those whose job it is to enforce law, to have law to enforce law and to do justice. And in the story of the Mahabharata, we have a usurping of the throne. And a loose agreement that when the the rightful heirs, the pond, Avas come of age, they'll take the throne. This this is not upheld. Right. So now we have fighting between two factions of cousins, both of whom feel they're the rightful rulers. This side, because of these reasons, this side because of these reasons, and in the story, this many, many attempts were made to find a diplomatic solution. In fact, this is why Krishna, who is cousin to the pond DeVos and cow Rivas, he's an extended cousin. That's why he's called in to act as mediator. So he's had many meetings with the cow Rivas, he's had many meetings with the pond Avas trying to find some common ground. Essentially, through Yoda, the main bad guy says no, he says no over and over again. One of his great lines in the Mahabharata is he just says, No, I enjoy being angry. Go on a mythological level. He is like ultimate stubbornness and anger and unmoving, pneus. Like he is that part of everyone. And he's that part of let's say, the forces that be on a military level, he says, no peace, none. Sounds like he might be reincarnated, in this modern time, a few people I could think of, I can think of a few people like that. Well, that will remain unnamed. Right? Yes, that's right. But that's, I mean, isn't about what, what happens? And where does that stubbornness come from, and that I'm right come from, and, again, I get back to the, how I see women. And just the way you and I, Kamala are working with this, that there's, there's a give and take, no one's right. And no one knows everything. Yet. Here we are in a situation of war, where they won't accept any negotiations. And, to me, the dichotomy here is that it's supposed to be a spiritual book, yet, it's, we're talking about war and killing. And these people in it don't seem like high spiritual characters. Yet, as we get further in, we see that there's a, there's a confusion, and there's even a contradiction in it. And we're going to talk about this a lot more than war. So just know that this is one of the things that we've been struggling with, in this detailing of this retelling of this story. So we'll be coming. But yeah, this whole idea of righteousness, it's just, it was confusing to me. And ultimate righteousness, it seems a tall claim. But, you know, this is an entitled Prince who's been taught his whole life that the sun rises and sets by his presence. So right we're, by I think all of these characters represent a level of entitlement that we're familiar with. And we can also understand the level of corruption that was present for this kind of inability to find common ground, to take place. And in fact, in the sort of the larger mythology of the Mahabharata was that the cow Rivas and this very corrupt part of the Kush Satria class was, you know, was it was like, was like, possessed, right and evil had evil had taken, evil was winning, because of them. And why this is seen as a righteous war is there. The Pandavas have come to save the day, and they've come to restore some righteousness to the world. I agree with you initially. This is not a narrative I'm very comfortable with. I know it doesn't seem like real life to me. But it's a myth. It's a story from again, a long time ago, without sensitivity training. Yeah. And also, it's a little bit interesting, because doesn't Pandu mean white? And so we talk about is almost like the cowboy stories that I saw as a kid, when you see the the people with white hats coming in, and saving the day. And it's almost laughable, but that we have that and there is this, the righteous ones are coming in to save the day yet. Well, we'll get into that later, this whole idea that that's the only way that you can solve problems is to hurt somebody or kill them. And then what happens, you know, then then we hear then the righteousness of the whole country goes down, because people everyone's dead. Everyone's dead. All the men are dead. All the men I mean, men are dead. Yeah, I'll wipe out. I mean, this is exactly what happened in this war. And you know, the women couldn't have been happy about this, because in those days a women didn't work. work, they didn't bring in any money. And this was their sole support. Not to mention they loved it. Hopefully they love their husbands. Not always, a lot of it was arranged in those times. But it's just to take something and go back that far, when we have such a modern society now. That's that's our think our challenge of how to mold it, how to shape it. So it fits into 2020 420-526-2840, whatever it is, to make it vital for today. I think the the basic premise of a conflict is something that we can all understand. But I think something else that I've I've understood about this, that, you know, the idea that there is some balance of virtue that is being fought for a balance of justice. I, it's not our myth, in a way. No, it's for women. It's not our myth I, it's far, it's not our story. It's just not our story. We have a story that we have been healers, we've been the ones to go in the middle of the night when someone is delivering a baby. We had the tinctures for someone when they hurt their arm, or they cut something or whatever. We've been the healers, not the destroyers, were the ones that gave birth were the ones that brought the next generation forward. So to include us in a war is difficult. It's a difficult. It's been difficult to sell us on

Nischala Joy Devi: 46:55

this war, we believe in the teachings, and we believe in the teaching, extricate them from this kind of ideal, you know, if it's okay, I'd like to go back to a little story. Yes, that I think explains a lot of this in, in kind of an allegory, or a story form. And this is one of the oldest forms of teaching is telling stories, because sometimes the teachings are a little dry. So they if they implant them into something that that's possible, and maybe even you can relate to, then you remember things better. I think we see this in the Bible's their stories. And, again, getting back to the bards, who went from town to town, singing the stories. So this is a particular story around that same time of the writing of, of the Gita, that we, and this story was told to me many, many times by my teacher, and he always shared this as something that showed different aspects. And I'll let you figure that out, I'll tell the story. And you can figure it out. And maybe with a little help, we can show you where the changes occurred. And so this was a story about a Saudi Assad who was a wandering monk usually. And again, there, the tradition is that a monk never stays in one place for more than three days. And that was so they didn't get attached, and the people didn't get attached. So it was, it was double. You just stay for three days, you you had your teachings, people fed, you gave you a place to stay, and then you moved on. Also, it didn't cause a burden for the people who work supplying the food, and the bed, because most people didn't have very much money in those times. So it was, it was a benefit to all, it was one of those perfect acts that brings harm to no one and benefit to some. So this monk had been studying and meditating for a long time, and was sitting in the forest. And he was sitting under a tree to protect him from the sun, and also any rain that may come etcetera. And he was very, very deep in meditation. And at a certain point, he felt something physical, and it jolted him out of this deep state of meditation. And he put his hand on top of his head and he felt something drop. And he realized that a bird had done its business on his head. And as he touched it, and he looked at his hand afterwards, he got disgusted. He was disgusted, that this bird had dropped his droppings on the top of his head after all, He was a great Sado who was accomplished in meditation. So instead of just letting it go and going back into meditation, he found the bird, he looked at the bird. And because he had accumulated a lot of spiritual girth, during his meditation, and he had achieved some of the, what we call the yogic cities or powers. When he looked at the bird, the bird instantly became inflamed, and then turn to powder ash, and fell to the ground. Love Assad, who was very impressed with his ability to kill a bird. Wow, I'm really great. I didn't realize I had that much power. Okay. So as was his custom, every evening, he came out of meditation, walked into the village and asked for arms. That was the tradition at the time. And what he would do he was he would go up to someone's home, stand at the kitchen door. And ask at that point, he would say, big shum day he chopped Parvati, which meant, beloved Mother, please, I've come for some food, give me some food. And usually he would wait, wait outside, the woman would prepare a little bowl of food for him, give it to him, he would eat sanker and move on. But this time was different. This time he had burned the bird. So he thought he was very special. So he walked up to the door, and instead of in a sweet voice, saying that he demanded it, fix it. And he just kept repeating it. Finally she came to the door and she said sod do I'm very busy cooking food for my family. You're gonna have to wait, I'm not that bird. You can burn me. He was shocked. How would this simple, ignorant household a woman know something that happened in the forest? That she that he burned his bird, and his hunger went? Now all he wanted was to know how she knew. So he she came back after a while and handed him a bowl of food. And he said, It's not the food I'm after right now. I want to know, How did you know about that? bird that I burned. And she said, You know what, I'm too busy to go into it. Now. I have powers too. But if you want to know how this happens, go into the next town and talk to Vyasa. He's the butcher in the town. Well, the saddle couldn't believe it a butcher, you want me to talk to a butcher? Because he felt he was way above anything like a butcher. And he was vegetarian. And he thought, Oh, this is terrible. But he was curious. So we walked into the next town and it was very easy to find the butcher shop, because the Butcher was yelling and saying, people were saying you're cheating me. And he was putting his finger on the scale and all kinds of things. And the Saudi said, This is what I'm getting spiritual advice from. He said, I don't know if I can do this. But he was curious again. So he walked up just to the door to listen to the butcher, and what how he was speaking to the customers. And then the butcher looked up and he said, Ah, so do. The woman in the village sent you to see me about you burning the bird. Remember, there was no faxes, there was no email, and there was no texts at that point. It had to all be done through this mental ability of clairvoyance and clairaudience. So that sada was stunned. Finally, the busher finished, took off his bloody apron, hung it up. And he said, Come with me to my home. As we walk, I'll talk and tell you some stories. They finally got to his home. And he said to the Saudi, please wait. I have to prepare my food, the food for my elderly parents. They're vegetarian. He said. They don't eat meat. But it's my duty to prepare that then I will speak to you. And that's what he did. And when he came out, he gave him the great teachings of yoga. So, look at that story and understand the different components Yes, we are entitled to go deep into words. spiritual practices, but not at the expense of being unkind to people. And no matter what your profession, no matter what you do in life, if your heart is centered in that divine, everything becomes a spiritual practice.

Kamala Rose: 55:24

That's a beautiful story. Nicola, I think we'll leave it there for today. Yes. Thank you all so much for joining us for a very, very brief history lesson on the Bhagavad Gita. We will surely continue later. Thank you so much for being with us. Namaste. Namaste.

Unknown: 55:45

Thank you for joining us for a woman's Gita with Nischala Joy Devi and Kamala rose. We would like to express our gratitude for the ongoing support for a woman's Geeta podcast and book from yoga gives back a nonprofit organization dedicated to the underserved women and children of India. Please join us again for our next episode. Coming soon. Namaste.