Balancing Pleasure and Pain: Insights from Chapter 2 of the Gita

In this episode, Kamala Rose and Nischala Joy Devi continue their deep dive into Chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita, exploring some of the most profound and transformative verses in this foundational chapter.

Key topics covered in this episode include:

• The importance of maintaining balance and equanimity in the face of pleasure and pain, as discussed in verse 215
• The nature of the self (Atman) as eternal, unchanging, and distinct from the temporary physical body, as elucidated in verses 16-18
• The mystical insights of the Upanishads and how they are woven into the Gita's teachings on the true nature of the self
• The role of yoga practice in cultivating the witness-consciousness that allows us to transcend the dualities of the material world
• Practical examples and personal anecdotes that illuminate the Gita's teachings on death, rebirth, and the immortality of the soul
• The importance of studying the lives and realizations of realized sages and saints, such as Ramana Maharshi, to deepen our understanding of the Gita's wisdom

Throughout the discussion, Kamala and Nischala offer their unique perspectives as experienced yoga teachers, drawing upon their decades of practice and study to shed light on the profound and transformative teachings of this timeless text.
Whether you are new to the Gita or a seasoned student, this episode promises to deepen your understanding of the nature of the self and the path of yoga as a means of transcending the suffering inherent in the human condition.

Transcript

Kamala Rose: 0:04

Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita Podcast. I'm Kamala rose,

Nischala Joy Devi: 0:10

I'm nistula Joy. Davey.

Kamala Rose: 0:12

Thank you all so much for joining us and for making time to listen to our podcast. Today, we are continuing our discussion of chapter two, which serves as an overview of the Bhagavad Gita. Gives us a lot of the context and philosophy that we'll be following throughout the Gita, and we're picking up where we left off last time after verse 214 where we discussed the chariot metaphor from the Katha Upanishad. In fact, for the whole episode today, we're going to be picking up there and continuing our discussion of some of the most important verses that we find in chapter two,

Nischala Joy Devi: 1:06

215 reminds us, if through pleasure and pain and other dualities, one remains balanced, One is fit to reach immortality. I think this is probably one of the keys to not only spiritual life, but also to living our life, really, to how can we maintain that balance? Because pleasure and pain is so prevalent in every moment of our life. One moment you get good news, the next moment you get bad news, something good happens, something bad happens. This is what we're talking about, the nature. This is the prakriti This is the going back and forth, the the the never ending cycle of movement. But here we're faced with it. And to me, this is really something about the mind. How can we really things are going to happen to us? No doubt, good things, bad things, or how we perceive them as good and bad? Maybe they're not good and maybe they're not bad. We never know until the whole thing plays out how it's going to end. But if we look at this pleasure and pain, we're constantly going toward this we want the pleasure, but we avoid the pain, or we try to, and it just doesn't work. All the other dualities we have to remain balanced. And I think this is the key to yoga practice. And why we do yoga practice is to get that balance. So when you finish a practice, whether it's 15 minutes or two hours or whatever it is, there's a sense sense of centeredness, a sense of being in the middle of everything, and we are observing the pleasure. We are observing the pain, instead of being the pleasure and the pain and being knocked about. I always have this image of being like in a rock tumbler. We're constantly being rocked one side or another for this pleasure and pain, and we seek it. So being more balanced, it's not boring. And I know a lot of people think it is. Balance is boring. It actually isn't. Balance is relaxation. You don't have to worry about things, you don't have to strive as much. You just it's an acceptance, acceptance in balance.

Kamala Rose: 3:47

It's so important what you're saying, Nisha, because this really sets the framework for why we practice, why, why yoga exists as a method. Its purpose is to alleviate that suffering, that Dukkha of being buffered between always striving to find the next pleasurable experience and avoiding the ones that we find that are. Dukkha make us suffer or are produce an uncomfortable mental state and unfortunately, it defines so much of our personalities, too, the things we like, the things we dislike. And when we're looking at this beginning part, and it's really not the beginning beginning, but we'll say the Krishnas initial philosophical argument here in chapter two, he brings out this idea of dualities, as in terms of addressing our Juna state, he's having a Dukkha mental state, and it's causing him a meltdown. We all know these experiences where we experience suffering, and it's because of that experience of suffering that we seek to get out of it. We seek a remedy or a medicine. And this is why yoga practice is so important, and it's introduced here.

Nischala Joy Devi: 5:17

And that's the pleasure. That's what we go for when we're in pain, we go for pleasure, even though we know that the pain may actually cause more harm. So for instance, if we're upset, one of the things that people like to do is eat right? So they it's a fulfillment. We feel empty in some way, so we choose to fill it with food. But generally, the food that we go to when we're in this suka Duca phase, which, by the way, I always call the suka Duca twins. I really like them, because they're one side of the coin, the other side of the coin is the same. It all leads to the same place. So when we have this suka Duka, what we generally do is choose things that aren't good for us. So instead, if you felt like eating something and you sat down and you had an apple, maybe a pear, or something like that, it's good for you. So even though you may not be hungry or you may not need it. It's good for you, but when you turn it into something that's very sugary and fatty, we tend to eat so much more of it, and then it produces more of the dukkha, the unhappiness, because then you don't feel well afterwards. So this is something that the mind does to the body. The mind, does to social. If you're unhappy, you may yell at a friend. It's not their fault, but something they said just bothered you in a little different way, little wrong way, and you yell at them now you have to go back and apologize and make up with your friend. So all this is being caused because we're out of balance. That's the only reason. It's because we've chosen things that aren't good for us rather than are good for us. And you say, Well, this is the Bhagavad Gita talking about all these higher teachings and everything, yes, but the higher teachings are only reflected in our daily life. That's the only way we can see them. You can't tell if a person is elevated until you see how they act, and especially act toward themselves and others. So this is a very important point, this suka Duka, and we see it everywhere. You see it everywhere. It's just, it's it's even how you do an Asana. If you do an Asana in a certain way, it could be sukha, or it could be Dukkha. Maybe it feels good at the moment to really, really stretch and really, really pull it. But what happens in an hour or two hours or the next day when you can't get out of bed because your back hurts. So the initial sukha turned to Dukkha.

Kamala Rose: 8:08

And this is a recurring theme throughout the Gita, this idea of Sukkah Dukkha as being the grounds of our human experience, how we relate to property, how we relate to nature, the phenomenal world, right? Sometimes we see it as favorable, sometimes it's unfavorable, but this is the experience that we're having in the next verse in 16 Krishna now continues the dialog by saying, what is unmanifested can never be what is will always be. The knowledge of the real and the unreal is held by seers. I mean, we this is, this? Is that gem of Indian yogic philosophy that says spirit is one thing. Nature is another element. We have these two elements that coexist as the world around us and as ourselves, as a person, as a locus of personality. And I think as he's as Krishna is making his argument with our Judah. He's saying, remember, this phenomena is temporary. This phenomena where you're experiencing dukkha, this is temporary. What is not temporary is what is numinous, or what is the source? What is spirit? The Atman? Yes. And here we begin the teachings on the atman

Nischala Joy Devi: 9:44

this to me, one of my teachers is Ramana Maharshi, and I think he really takes this one sloka and makes it his entire. Sadhana, and he uses a practice that some of you may have heard of. It's very simple practice. It's called neti, neti and not this, not this. So basically, what he's doing is he's adding a practice to this wonderful sloka. Because what we're seeing is, is this real? No, this isn't real. Is this real? No, this also isn't real. So instead of using those words, he's just saying, Not this, not that. So when, how can we apply this to our own lives? When we look at something we want to know, is this going to be here forever? Is this permanent? One of the things that just happened, which was kind of funny in a way, is I just had, I was away, and I got a cold, and you can probably still hear a little bit in my voice, and we all know when you're in the midst of a cold, it seems like it's never going to end. You feel like you're going to die from it. You can't breathe, you feel achy, you feel awful, and then somehow, miraculously, within a week to 10 days, you feel good again. If we could remember this Netty, Netty right in the middle of it? No, it's not this. It's not this. It's not going to be permanent. It's just here for something to slow us down, to clean our bodies, for whatever reason you see it. It's not permanent. And this goes for most of the things. The only thing that's unchanging and permanent Is that true self within us. That's the only thing that never changes. Once we can understand that. It goes back to the sloka before that, which talks about we're always in balance, because we know, no matter how good it is, no matter how bad it is, this too shall pass.

Kamala Rose: 12:09

Well, you're speaking here about avidya, and that idea that it is the misunderstanding, that original misunderstanding of who, who I am, who you are, who one is, believing that I am this cold and that I am not forgetting that I am the Atman. And this original misunderstanding is now what drives us into the dualities now to try to fix through raga and vaisha, exactly the clay have that sense of individuation asmita that tells us this person is having a bad experience, and we somehow believe that what is temporary is eternal. Yes, our minds convince us of this, and this is the cause of our suffering, and why we have come to rely on the path of yoga to alleviate that suffering.

Nischala Joy Devi: 13:13

That's the initial seed planted the AVID in the clashes. It's the first one, because that gives birth to all the other ones. So if we don't understand in the beginning, or as I put it in the sutras, we're innocent of our nature. We don't even know it exists. We don't even think of it. It's not even an option until we understand that we have that part of us, all the other classes will take take root, including the one that we're getting to on this one. So the kleshas just to go over them, avidya, in the sense of our divine nature, a Smitha, undue trust in the individual self. This is what's happening here. We're trusting the individual self over the knowledge that we know is supreme raga and divesha. You were just talking about those, the excess fondness for fleeting pleasure and the excess avoidance of unpleasant experiences. They're part of us. We have the pleasant and the unpleasant. Bear them equally, is what we're being taught. Bear them equally. Don't go to the pleasure and push away the pain, because the pain will come back stronger. Look at them. And then, if you can, like Ramana Maharshi, analyze them. What did I do to get in this situation? And more importantly, how do I get out of it?

Kamala Rose: 14:53

And that final clay show of abini vaish fear, yes, this, these things keep us. In. And I love the picture that Mr. Rama Swami, when I read the sutras with him, presented that a video is like a Petri dish that all the rest of the clashes grow in. And we exactly we have, you know, quite a culture, a personality culture, Psych of our psyches going on and the path to understanding is exactly what you're teaching and reminding us of nishala is self inquiry. Who is experiencing Who is this that's experiencing pain, pleasure, fear, who believes themselves to be an individual. This is really the basis, continuing basis for the for the yogic path and the ongoing dialog here in the Gita I'm going to go to the next Oh, you go ahead.

Nischala Joy Devi: 16:00

I just wanted to when you were saying that what it what it triggered in my mind, was people saying, well, I don't, I don't really understand that. I How could it not be? How could it be there? And we don't know. Well, let's go to a very simple example of having something taken off your arm by a physician, right? So what do they do? The very first thing? Well, the very first thing they do is clean it, but this next thing they do is numb it. So they'll take and they'll put local anesthesia in your arm, right? And then they begin to take it off, whether by burning or cutting or however they do stop next time that happens, and think to yourself, why don't I feel pain? Now, where did the pain go? Right? Because if he would, if he or she would, the physician would do the same thing. On the other arm, you'd be screaming in pain. So that little bit of anesthesia detached us from any pain that we may feel in the arm, just like we have practices that detach us from any pain we may feel in the mind, and that helps us keep our balance, because we're not screaming in pain from the cutting of our arm, because we don't feel it. We're detached from it. It's the same thing here.

Kamala Rose: 17:32

Anyone who's been through any type of ongoing medical treatment knows a constant mantra that rolls through, this too will pass, right? This too will pass. And I think just that, just that basic understanding that we learn from the yoga Vidya is by nature, property nature. It is temporary. Its nature is to change once we have that understanding and that consciousness within us, the soul, the spirit, however we consider the Atman. What is? What is essential to oneself being alive, this is permanent, and is this is the one who's having the experience of something temporary, but being able to have that, that objectivity, where we can clearly view, as we're always saying, as the witness, right? The Atman is the witness, the one who's just observing, who's not involved in the drama of it this. This is really a great way of seeing that kind of numbing that we can we can give ourselves a little space from the suffering of everyday life and the things that we all have to endure, and find solace in the self. Krishna says in verse 17, the indwelling one is eternal and immeasurable. The whole universe is indestructible. The body is mortal, but the indwelling one is immortal. It cannot be destroyed. That's 17 and 18. Here's 18 in the Sanskrit antavanta e may De ha nityas yoke, daha sharirana, anashi no prameya, tasmad, yud yasva Bharata, having an end these bodies, these day has the body the that's one of the ways the Atman is referred to as the body wearer, one who's wearing the body. These are nityas. They are uh. They're temporary. They come and go. The Eternal One who is embodied inside of the body, inside of the sharira, is indestructible. Anashino, it is immeasurable, and he gives the imperative. Therefore, carry on. Arjuna, don't be, don't be disturbed by this suffering. Carry on. Now that you understand this, carry on.

Nischala Joy Devi: 20:29

There's another aspect also when you say this, that comes to me because having been in medicine for so many years and seen people in the operating room, under under anesthesia. One of the things that I found is you could actually talk to the people, and they couldn't talk back, of course, but they could follow instructions. For instance, if we would say, withdraw the blood from this area because they're cutting at this point, we would suddenly see the blood being withdrawn from the area, and we and I would stand there, and I would wonder, Who am I talking to, and who is listening, and who was the doer, in this case, who's actually Moving the blood away from the site. So when we when I read this, and when I really go into the Gita, it's explaining to me who I'm talking to, who is in there, who's listening, and who has the power over the body to help it heal. And this, I think, is a whole idea of holistic medicine that we've now brought into the world with the help of these ancient scriptures, because we're seeing that we don't have to succumb to all the things that were said to succumb to and we do have certain amount of control over it. So the indweller is eternal, and it wants to use this body as long as it possibly can for its mission here on Earth. So our job is just to listen and keep it healthy in that way. So that's that's my experience of this, even though it may not be in a strict spiritual sense, but when someone is undergoing a medical procedure, it is a spiritual experience in a lot of ways.

Kamala Rose: 22:38

It's one of the times that we are so detached from the body in this way and literally, literally, I know the medieval alchemists did a lot of thought in this area, trying to understand, how is it that you could be immobile and yet still alive. And it we're talking about a mystery here, and I think it's important to kind of hold it in the place of a mystery, right? And not be so analytical like I am sometimes about about how all of this works together. We're Krishna is really bringing up this idea of the mystery of the spirit, the the part that animates the body, but is not the personality, is the the indwelling one. Now these verses are, are really taken from inspired by also the Katha Upanishad and we know that the seers of the Upanishads delve deeply into the subject of, what is it that is permanent, what is it that is temporary? You know, they were the and it was their revelations that we find in the Upanishads about the transcendence of the self. From the Katha Upanishad we're looking at some, you know, some, some beautiful verses between a dialog, again, a dialog here, between the student and death is teaching him. This is how it works, death. Yama says the primeval one is hard to perceive, wrapped in mystery, hidden in a cave, residing within an impenetrable depth. This is the insight to be known. And here in the Bhagavad Gita, these great insights from the Upanishads are put, put before us as the goal to strive to this mysterious knowledge of the self of spirit of. The numinous is what is to be known and yet hard to perceive and known through the heart.

Nischala Joy Devi: 25:11

I think we have to remember also that we're reading the Gita now through it's not a book that you read through and put back on the shelf. It's something that you constantly read because you're evolving. And every time we evolve, the slokas that we read, or if you're reading the Sutras, the sutures that we read, if you're reading the Bible, the lines that you read, speak to us differently because we have matured, we understand things. There's even the beautiful part in the Bible. I think it's in the Old Testament, it says, When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, right? Because that's how a child thinks. But then when I grew up, I put aside these childish things, and I understood things in a different way, and this is what's happening. So if this immediately doesn't speak to you, and you say, wait a minute, I don't know all this real and unreal thing, don't throw it away. Just put it aside and say, Okay, maybe in another year, maybe six months, maybe two years. Who knows? There's no time on it. I'll pick it up again. Maybe then it will make more sense to me.

Kamala Rose: 26:32

This is such important advice, because sometimes people are they find it difficult to, you know, to grasp this sort of mysterious nature, especially since we're going between verses that say, therefore, fight, stand up like a man exactly, then the self is transcendent. These are juxtaposed in the Gita. It makes it, makes it a little difficult to penetrate. So I know that for both of us, this is a purpose of doing this podcast is to try to help this, help make this a little more accessible to so many of our friends and colleagues in the yoga community who who would love to love the Gita. But find some of this language a bit arcane. The these verses that are that are taken from the Upanishads and we find here in chapter two, are really meant to be an incredible inspiration to us, meant to state something as simply as possible, that there is a state beyond the ordinary mundane life. There's a state beyond suffering. And this is the purpose of yoga practice is to achieve this.

Nischala Joy Devi: 28:04

I think one of the things that we've tried to do in our translation is make it palatable for everyone, because when we talk about the indwelling one, you can name it anything you want or not. That's the beauty of it. No one has the monopoly on the name or the form. It's just, it's this essence, this spirit, what finding word is so difficult, but it's, it's that which we were just speaking about, that motivates the body, that motivates the mind, that motivates the intellect, that keeps us moving in this world, that we have no idea why we're here, but it keeps us going because it knows why we're here. It's but it's not telling. So there's this constant movement. You say, Why did I even do that? I don't even think about why I did that. You did it because there was something in you that was moving that forward. So find it in your heart. It's there. Look for it. It's that indwelling Spirit that we each have. And the other thing that should not be a secret. It's the same in all of us, no matter what you call it, no matter what it looks like, it's still the essence of the same, and that makes us all one. So when we read this and it says we're all one, you say, Yeah, well, she looks different than me, and he looks different than her, and he talks a different language. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about this essence, and they describe it so exquisitely and eloquently. Let's read more of what they have to say about it.

Kamala Rose: 29:55

The self is not born, nor does it ever die after having. Been, does it cease not to be unborn, eternal, changeless and ancient. It does not die. When the body dies.

Nischala Joy Devi: 30:11

Isn't that beautiful?

Kamala Rose: 30:12

I just it's beautiful. Yes, it

Nischala Joy Devi: 30:16

goes back and forth. It's so poetic this. There's some places to me in the Gita that are more poetic, and this is definitely one of them. It's not born, nor does it ever die. So immediately you stop, then that's enough for a lifetime meditation. Just, let me just say that first part you could meditate on that for the rest of your life and try to understand, but not with the mind, with that essential part of us. What does that mean? After having been it does not cease to be unborn, eternal, changeless and ancient. It does not die when the body dies. So this is a lot of what has been told to us in so many different ways, whether we talk about it as dust to dust, ashes to ashes, they're talking about the body. They're not talking about the spirit, and we they the Spirit, will have eternal peace. So each tradition has tried to describe this in a particular way. And I, personally, I think one of the most eloquent ways is here in the Gita. It's just very simply put and and also poetic understanding the 20 understanding that itself is birthless, deathless, real and imperishable. How would it perish when the body dies? Getting back to the teacher, Ramana Maharshi, those of you who don't know about him, please look him up. He was pretty extraordinary in who he was, and at the end of his toward the end of his life, he had a cancer on his arm, and they begged him to have the cancer removed. And he he said, No, it's It's supposed to be there. That's why it's there. There's a reason for it. And even there were little maggots that would come and eat the dead cells, and they would fall and he would pick them up and put them back on the sore well, people thought he was crazy, and we probably would too, but most people called him a saint. So here we have again this and he would always say, and they said him, Oh Master, please don't leave us. Don't go anywhere. And he would look at them and say, Where would I go? There's no place to go. This is it. There's I have no place to go. Even when the body dies, the spirit still remains. Don't Don't mourn for me, because I'm not going anywhere. So again, taking this and putting it back into the everyday teachings is so powerful,

Kamala Rose: 33:13

truly, and what we're talking about a different kind of insight, a mystical insight, sometimes called a Gnostic insight, an insight that transcends the ordinary world. The knowledge of mystics like Ramana Maharshi are exceptional. We read about those who have known this in such a an uncompromising way. And I know in my life with my guru, I saw this in 100 different ways, of just an acceptance of conditions the way they are, without fighting against it, without constantly trying to change the world to make you happy, exactly fighting against conditions the way they are. But you know, when you were saying that nishila, I was also reminded of, I'll say, the role of conventional religion, of almost trying to keep this secret. I think it's one of the things I love so much about the Gita is that it's stated right up front. Here's the here's the knowledge that you are the divine. Yeah, that that, that tattva must see that mystical insight of the Upanishads. You are, that everyone is that we are all that. And I'm reminded that at at many different times throughout history, this was there was a Sufi saint called Hafiz who openly declared, I am the divine. He realized this, and I. He was he was killed for having this knowledge, this mystical insight, is rare, and in order, if everyone knew this, the world would be an entirely different place, and our religious organizations wouldn't have so much control of people if everyone knew themselves to be the divine. So mystical insight throughout history has it's a controversial subject in the livingness of it, and people who have this don't live in ordinary society. Can't, you can't to maintain this really requires, it's saying no to craving, saying no to avoiding the things that we dislike, a radical acceptance of the way things are.

Nischala Joy Devi: 35:54

Can I tell you a really fun fact about Romano a harshi, please? When he started to have these revelations, he moved into a cave. He started living in a cave, and he invited his mother to come live with him in the cave. And she did, and the two of them sat there and went into deep states of consciousness together, apart and together, which I think is amazing. He realized the source from which he came in both aspects, in the mystical aspect and also in the human aspect, by inviting his physical mother to come there with him. So I think to me this, the sorrow that I see today with a lot of incoming yoga students, is they're not they're not seeing the saints, they're not listening to the mystics. And it has become, Yoga has become a very much a physical or a material practice, rather than what it is intended for as this very esoteric and mystical practice, and I think defining it for me at least, what that means is something that is mystical cannot really be explained by Physical characteristics and physical ways, is something that trans transcends all that and becomes something, another entity in itself, and that's the mystical, and it's something that can't be proven, and it really most of the time, cannot be spoken, most of the time. What you'll see if someone has a mystical revelation is just this very simple smile on their face of inner contentment. Sentosa with that. So read about these people. They they they'll give you insight into what you're experiencing now too. They were very generous with their explanations and their teachings and take advantage of it, is what I would say,

Kamala Rose: 38:06

Julie, it's really, it's really great advice, because we are finding such a trend of the heavy emphasis on the physical and understanding how, how how Hatha Yoga has come to us at this point in history. Where did it come from? How did it develop all of this? And you know, it's, it's, it's wonderful to understand, but we have to remember that there's a much bigger picture with the purpose of yoga. There's a there's a reason that these practices of standing on one leg, for example, were passed down to us today, and it doesn't have anything to do with performance or competition in the classroom, and we certainly could benefit a lot from this today. These verses, again, are taken right from the Kathu Upanishad chapter two, the wise one is not born and does not die. Has come from, has not come from anywhere, has not become anyone. This one is unborn, eternal, primeval and everlasting and is not killed when the body is killed, simple ways of expressing a mystical insight that transcends really what we know and how we operate in our ordinary lives. This is the main argument for for the next chapters, for the rest of the Gita, is this initial distinction that consciousness is not matter. Matter is what consciousness is observing. Mm. Yeah, having a sense of detachment or witnessing of nature as we experience it subjectively is what the tools of yoga enable us to do. This is really the purpose of our asana practice, is to help to quiet down, help to eliminate some of that systemic rajas, changeability and irritability and inflammation and passions in the body, pranayama to help to eliminate some of that systemic Tamas of tiredness and apathy in the body, so that we can train ourselves to have a lighter, more transparent inner space, to witness more clearly.

Nischala Joy Devi: 40:52

The next part, I think, is something I've used quite a bit. And how have I used it well as a swami and as a minister, I was called upon to do memorial services. And being of a yoga lineage, and having practiced for so long, it was natural for me to go to a yogic book instead of one of the other great books that there are. And I must say that when I read these passages, at first, I really wondered how these people would react to it, because it wasn't the person that I knew that I was talking to, because they were already on their way to another dimension. But it was the families, it was the friends, it was the community of that person. And how would they react to this? And when I would read something as the next couple slokas, I don't we didn't do 21 yet.

Kamala Rose: 42:06

No, if the soul, we sort of lumped that into the last one. So

Nischala Joy Devi: 42:11

let me just read that again, because it goes with the other it's a question, is the soul indestructible, eternal? If I'm sorry, if the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and unchanging, how then could it be destroyed? Well, it can't be and then the 22 goes into probably one of the famous slokas of the Gita. You may have heard this one before, just as one casts off worn out clothes and puts on new ones, so also the self throws away its worn out bodies and takes on new ones. Weapons cannot cut, fire cannot burn, water cannot wet, wind cannot dry it. And then they go on again. It cannot be cut, burnt, wetted or dried up. It is eternal, all pervading, firm, immovable and ancient. So when we look at these three slokas, when I look at them, it gives me of sense that there is something more that we did take in these clothes. And, you know, there's many movies that have shown this. Now, we zip off our physical bodies, and we have we're a body of light underneath. There have been many books. There was a book many years ago, I think was Ken Keyes at the time, and he wrote the title, remember, was something that got to me, and it said, it's a crack in the cosmic egg. And to me, that just showed me that the inside the egg there's that's where the life is. It's not in the shell that cracks, that goes away, same with us, this body. And look at yourself. Remember how you look 10 years ago. Remember how you look now. Look at your children. How did they look two years ago? How do they look now? It's not the same. And as soon as we're born, the body starts to decay and die. That's the nature of it. It's like a fruit. The minute you pick it. It may be ripe, but keep it for a few days. Keep it for a few weeks. It starts to decay, but what's inside the body? That's what we're talking about this is just another way of describing it. So when you say this to the the family of someone who has just been lost to them that's so loving and dear that they think that they may have gone to oblivion, letting them know, no they've cast. Off their worn out body, and now they've gone on. You know, the most extraordinary thing I ever heard after doing a service like this is my friend's father. She was a great yogi. Her father was not and he came up to me after the memorial, and he looked at me, and I was a little nervous to tell you the truth, because I didn't know how he'd react very middle of the road person. And he looked at me and he said, You know, I never thought I'd feel joy at my daughter's Memorial, but you have made that and I said, it's the Bhagavata. It explained it in a way that your heart could hear it. So I think that this is not just wisdom, but it's practical wisdom also that we can live our lives each day,

Kamala Rose: 46:01

answering the profound questions of the human condition, and right here, in chapter two, we're addressing some of these big ones. That's a beautiful story. Nisha, thank you for sharing that with us. I also find it life affirming in a way that that death can be very life affirming, teaching us that this is not everything, however, it is everything to you right now, and these verses describing reincarnation. Give us a sense of the ancient nature of the spirit that we have been here before and we will be here again. This is why we practice yoga. Is so that we can hopefully make our completions, and when it's time to pass, our minds are no longer attached to this world. I think it's a good time for us to wrap up this episode of our podcast. We'll be continuing through addressing some of the main themes of chapter two as we continue, and we just want to thank everyone for subscribing and listening to our podcast. It gives us a lot of happiness and hope for the Gita and for the understanding of yoga when we see how many of you have listened to our podcast and and shared it with others. So we are so grateful to all of our friends and colleagues in the yoga community for making this podcast what it is.

Nischala Joy Devi: 47:57

Remember Knowledge is power. Thank you, namaste. Thank.