Dharma, Karma, and the Transformative Journey of the Gita

In this episode of A Woman's Gita, hosts Nischala Joy Devi and Kamala Rose delve into the profound concepts of dharma and karma as presented in the Bhagavad Gita. They explore how these ancient yogic principles can guide us on a transformative journey of spiritual growth and self-realization.

Through an insightful discussion of key verses from the Gita, the hosts shed light on the importance of consistent spiritual practice, overcoming fear and doubt, and cultivating humility on the path of yoga. They also address the unique challenges faced by modern yoga practitioners, including navigating the evolving landscape of the yoga community.

Topics in this episode:

• The power of consistent spiritual practice and its transformative effects
• Overcoming fear and doubt on the spiritual path
• The role of humility and avoiding the pitfall of spiritual pride
• Navigating the modern yoga community and its evolving landscape
• The significance of dharma and karma in the Bhagavad Gita

Whether you are a seasoned practitioner or new to the Gita, this episode offers valuable insights that can deepen your understanding of the timeless wisdom contained within this revered text. Join Nischala and Kamala as they guide you through the transformative journey of the Gita.

Transcript

Lilavati Eberle: 0:02

Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita podcast, a modern discussion of the Bhagavad Gita by and for Western women. A women's Gita features discussions on the Bhagavad Gita, the timeless classic of Eastern wisdom, reinterpreted from the perspective of two female teachers, your hosts are nistula Joy Devi and Kamala Rose, who have dedicated their lives to the yoga tradition at a time when women's voices are finally emerging, a feminine perspective of the wartime treatise could not be more timely.

Nischala Joy Devi: 0:42

Namaste, Welcome to a woman's Gita. I'm Nishchala Joy Devi, and I'm Kamala rose, and we'd like to welcome you back, or if this is your first time, welcome today, we're going to move into sloka 240 we're still in the second chapter, and we're moving a little bit into a different aspect today. So let's begin with 240 no effort in practice is ever lost, nor are there outcomes negative, even a little spiritual practice protects one from fear.

Kamala Rose: 1:29

Yes, a very important shloka for yogis and for all who read the Gita in the original Sanskrit Neha B karma, st, pratya, pratya, vayo na, videota, svalpam, apyasya, dharmasya, triath, Mahato, bhayata, right? There's again, there's so much to unpack here. You heard the word dharma, dharmasya. You heard the word karma, right? Which we know this is, this is the idea of undertaking an effort, right? So no effort is lost in the practice of yoga, and never are the outcomes negative. There's no going back right. We might even call this backsliding right. In a in a religious context, there's no going back right. Any effort that's made is always going to have a positive result, right? Even a little bit of this discipline. Krishna uses the word dharmasya to describe this discipline when he says we would read it as even a little bit of the practice of yoga. He uses the word dharma for yoga here protects one from fear or danger. Bhaya. So lots to unpack here, lots to talk about in truly what is one of the most inspiring verses for all of us as yogis who come to practice every day, roll out our mats or meditation cushions, and we show up for ourselves, it's inspiring to know that this effort is never wasted, right? Even if, even if there are interruptions in practice, that effort is never wasted, and any effort that we put into the practice of yoga will always come to a good result, because it is for because its aim, its goal, is the realization of the transcendent aspect of oneself, the Atman. All roads lead to the Atman.

Nischala Joy Devi: 3:57

I think this is particularly poignant in that, in the beginning of practice, at least, and sometimes in the middle and towards wherever we're going. But people have doubt, and I think this is something that really helps. And they say, you know, all I can do is five minutes a day of meditation, and they'll come up to you and they'll say, is that enough? And as teachers, I think we're put in a very interesting position with that, because is it enough for what right? Is it enough to get realize Self Realization? Probably not. But is it enough to calm down a fearful or tumultuous mind that it may help so I think when we we look at this and we see that nothing is lost, that everything that you do, every effort that you make, you. Gets, gets you some some level of the peace that we're seeking, some level, even if it's a little bit or just transient, is something that comes so I think this is something that's that's very important, and some of the questions I get asked a lot, and then we look at this word fear, if anything stops us from our own realization, or even in the worldly sense, from getting that job that you want, from getting into the school you want, from doing whatever you're thinking, what stops most people is Fear, which is the most primal of all emotions, and to have a way to quell this, this fear, or here they, even, you say, protects us from the fear, is something that, in my Mind, we would all be rushing to do, if anything can help that. And there's probably one of my favorite sayings that I use all the time, and those of people who know me know that and that. When I remember when we were little novices, and our teacher was talking to us about fear, he said, The only thing that will stop you, the only real obstacle between you and what your desire of self realization is, is fear. It will stop you because the mind will show you parts of it that you don't want to see, but you have to face those parts, because it's also part of the mind's expression. So this is something you could use, even as a mantra, and that is Kas chit dirajas Chit dira. It means very few are that courageous, and what it says, what it doesn't say, but it's underlined to move into a spiritual practice, to move on to a spiritual path that very few tread, and as we're told, very few continue because of this fear. So here we're being promised

Unknown: 7:26

that the fear can be at least calmed to a certain point.

Kamala Rose: 7:33

Well, I think you're very right to zoom in on that word bahaya and address this idea of of what is the this fear that we're talking about? Certainly, when we engage in spiritual practice, we're moving into the unknown and to the unknown parts of ourselves. We, you know, especially early on, we have no idea, and can be very pessimistic and think that I'm gonna find horrible things in my subconscious that I'll have to deal with in the process of meditation and purification. And not to say that there, you know, there aren't some skeletons in the closet for all of us, but I think, I think the fear is simply of what's unknown, the unknown of who you are and the responsibility that comes from becoming who you are can be scary. I mean, you and I both know as monastics, there's an awful lot we gave up to focus on the realization of this real self, you know. But I think for many of our readers, many of the people who are listening to this podcast who would never become a monastic and are aren't really looking at the fear of leaving something behind to start something that they don't fully understand as as we did, um, I think the idea of of who you are, it can be, it can be, you know, cast a certain doubt. And it does take, as you so rightly, brought in that teaching from the katha, Upanishad, kachit diraha, that very few are that courageous to follow the path that leads them to who they really are, to that very authentic sense of dharma, right? Because we are talking about a Dharma that is in the world, a way of living one's yoga. And I think that sometimes that's, you know, we're going to confront the parts of ourselves that are yet unpurified Or that you don't know yet you've you've not really confronted. I spoke to a yoga teacher earlier this week who is terrified of standing in front of the class and. Speaking in front of people, and it keeps her from teaching yoga. This might be true with some of our listeners, that they're, you know, there's, there's some of the skills involved in being a yoga teacher that they feel are way outside of their skill set. You know, I can speak personally that even doing this podcast, is filled with a lot of anxiety and fear about being so public, from being in such a sheltered environment as the monastery. Right teaching publicly is, you know, is a new territory. So I think we're talking about that fear of what you haven't done yet, and the fear of of becoming oneself, right, expressing oneself and expressing those dharmic impulses that live in each of our hearts, I think this is extremely relevant To the subject here of karma yoga, right? And you know, just to link that into the practice of meditation and the realization of the Atman and everything that we're really talking about here in the Gita, that what, what is the practice? It is the practice of meditation, of buddhi, of of yoking, the buddhi or, let's say, seeing through one's wisdom faculty a bigger picture serve, serving a greater whole than one's solely personal right, wants and desires, And moving into a larger sphere, which is full of unknowns. So this idea of practice protecting us from that those fears, I think, is so empowering because it because we gain experience in doing it. We gain experience to learn that, that the things that we had to be afraid of are not real, right? They're just doubts made into something maybe larger than what they are. And to remember that very few are so courageous as to walk the path of, let's say, a radical authenticity, right, a radical expression of who you are. Very few are that brave in the world to put other things aside, cultural expectations, friends and family's expectations of you to do what you feel to be authentic so a very empowering shloka indeed.

Nischala Joy Devi: 12:47

Sometimes people come to me and they they say, I love what? I love these practices. I love the meditation. But I'm so afraid that if I continue this, I won't want to be with my family anymore. This is something that I hear over and over and over again, and it said, I think it's a lot of the integration that we spoke about last time, that the ability to be in the world, but not of it, and when the world is pulling so strongly in that direction, many people find it difficult, and they say the fear of it being in meditation and getting lost, that's something else people talk about. And I say there's nowhere to get lost. There's only one path. There's no lost you're just going into this higher consciousness. So I think, I think the society that we live in also has a responsibility. It seems to be causing a lot of fear for people, and if we can just begin to name it and eliminate some of the obvious ones, that when we get to this deep spiritual well, that instead of feeling any fear, there's awe, there's Wow. Let's go for this and well, let me see how it transforms me. Let me see what I do. I mean, a lot of women will come to me and they'll say, I don't want sex anymore, and my husband's very upset, or my partner is very upset. And this is just the normal moving away from the physical. It's not an intent. It's not something that we say, Oh, this is what I'm going to do, unless you're following that particular path. So this whole idea is really of fear. I can see how it stops people from doing something. You need to feel it and just go for it anyway, because it's. Otherwise you'll be staying in one place. A very funny incident happened to me on an airplane some years ago that refers exactly to this, and this man was sitting next to me, and it was still the days when they served meals, and they would yell out on the plane, who got the vegetarian meal, you know? And I would kind of cower a little bit and raise my hand, and it's me. And so he looks at me, and he says, Oh, you're a vegetarian, huh? And he said, I said, Yes. He said, Oh, I used to be a vegetarian. I said, Oh, that's interesting. And try to eat my meal. And then he reaches under his seat, and he pulls out a brown paper bag, pull pulls it back a little bit, unscrews something, takes a drink, and does the reverse and puts it back under his seat. And I didn't say anything, and it just looked and he said, Yep, I used, I used to do all those spiritual practices. I said, what happened? And he said, I got scared. And he said, instead of going toward the spirit, I now have spirit in a bottle. He said, But you're inspiring me to go back. He said, I was afraid that I would lose everything, and I'm thinking to myself, actually, you gain everything. You don't lose anything you're adding. In the Bible doesn't this say that seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and then all else will be added unto you, right? I mean, that's a promise, isn't it?

Kamala Rose: 16:45

Absolutely, yeah. And I remember the story of how, how terrified many of those fishermen were when Jesus called them to follow him. Leave this he said, leave this behind. Follow me. I am the Way, the Truth in the light and but those, I mean, those traditional generational fishermen were terrified to leave the security of the boat and the net and what they knew their whole life so

Nischala Joy Devi: 17:13

Exactly. And that's and I think that we need to listen to some of the the colonels, the the kernels of teaching that probably we don't need all of the rest of it, but to hear something like that, Seek ye first the kingdom, and then everything will be added unto you. Yogananda said something similar. He said, Don't come in the winter of your life. If you haven't come in the springtime. And what he was trying to say is it's so much harder to come in the winter, because you're already set in your ways. You already have this huge life. So this this fear, is a big thing. It's a big thing in medicine, it was a big thing. I would say to somebody, why didn't you come in before? Why did you let it get to this point? And what would they say? I was afraid. I was afraid to hear what it might be. I was afraid of the pain. So this fear is really something that I think the yoga practices address directly, and that's the power of them.

Kamala Rose: 18:29

I We can read it on so many levels too. We have the personal fears that are common to every human being we've talked I think these are all great examples that we've been discussing. I think that traditionally, in terms of those early yoga practitioners, which you know, are at this time of the Gita, we're looking also at the the idea of of samsara, or the the wheel of being bound to our karma eternally, yes, right? This idea of of no escape from the wheel of reincarnation, right? And this is, this is really the purpose of yoga is to free us from that wheel of reincarnation, of samsara. And so, you know, in this context, we can also read into those spiritual dangers, right? That are we? We hear very commonly in in religion, the spiritual danger of pride, right? The spiritual danger of wrong views, of misplaced efforts, right? These things can really get in our way. We can misperceive the spiritual. I think again, even on this level, we're looking that Yoga itself. Is a Moksha practice, a liberatory practice aimed at releasing us from the wheel of reincarnation. And it is the practice by showing up, doing practice, by meditating and looking deeply into our each of us, our personal nature, we can buy this path overcome what are the spiritual dangers, such as pride, wrong effort, wrong views, right, misperceptions of the goal that are inevitable on the path, right? We like to make it so much easier, or so much more self serving than what it really is in truth, we on the on this path of knowing who we are, we will overcome these significant, let's say, brigands, that block the path these misunderstandings of wrong perception. And we come back to the first part of the shloka that no effort in these practices is ever lost and never are their outcomes. Negative Yoga itself is in the tradition, is, is seen as a non binding action, right? So when we come to practice, whether we're coming to practice and practicing Asana meditation, there's these are non binding actions, right? They're they're not going to attach us to the wheel of reincarnation anymore. In fact, they're going to help liberate us. So even if there is an interruption in practice for a period of time, and you come back and you sit down and you say, Wow, that last two weeks was crazy. I did not have time to meditate once. And now, here I am. It's difficult, but it the effort is not lost, right? You very quickly come back to a remembered, almost physical and mental sense of the practice of concentration, of meditation, and that sense of being called the self.

Nischala Joy Devi: 22:23

I think time also plays a part in this. If it's two weeks, you may be able to regain it, because if you have had a steady practice before, but if you meditated once two years ago, and you sit down again, chances are not a whole lot is going to happen with it. The we talked about this, the the water needs to sink into the roots of the plant before you move it. So I think on one hand, we have to be encouraging, but on the other hand, there has to be also some realism in this. There's a certain level of practice to get to and a certain depth of level to practice to get to before we can take take it to the next level, or play it forward, or however you want to say it. And so again, how? What do you want out of this? I think this is an important question we have to keep asking ourselves, why are we doing this? Are we doing this because our back hurt and we want to make it feel better, and that's a totally valid reason for doing something, but if you really want to go to that, take yourself to that place that's beyond the comprehension of the human mind, to a place of absolute peace. It's a very different level of practice that we're talking about here, one of the ops, one of the issues when you were talking Kamala, especially about pride, I always go back to and also in the Yoga Sutras, I see this a lot too. They keep warning us not to think you're more evolved than you actually are. And I think we see this a lot. We have kind of the yoga teacher aura, or idea of how you walk in a room and you're there's a certain way you are, which is fine, that's just, that's just part of the peacefulness. But when you start to think that you're more evolved than everybody else, I think that's where we get into a little bit of issue. And I this is where it's talking here the protection, the word it protects us. I think, I'm not sure most people think about it like that, but this is a power. If something can protect us like that, that's that's a power, but we can't fight it with thinking that we're more evolved than we are. The same tradition has a wonderful phrase for this. Is one of my another one of my favorite things, if someone acts like that, they call it, they stink of enlightenment. To me, that's just so powerful, stinking of enlightenment, if you just stop and listen to the words put together. But the idea is that the more evolved you get, the more humble you get, because you're seeing the awe of the Divine Spirit, and that makes you humble. It's like standing in in Montana or a place where the sky is so big and you feel so insignificant, yet a part of the whole and a part of the greatness. To me, that's really what this is saying here. No effort in practice is law is ever lost, nor are the outcomes negative. That's the other thing people come and worry about. Well, suppose I'm doing it wrong, and it's gonna, instead of bringing me peace, it'll bring me more tumult. No, no, it only it's a one way street. It doesn't go two ways with with spiritual practice. It only takes you in the positive. And that's why I think we can need a continuation of teachers, and I know there's a lot of teachers out there that we're speaking to, it's our responsibility to help people understand what it really means. And the longer you've been practicing, the longer each of us understands it, and then we can then pass it on to the next, who then understand it and continue the tradition,

Kamala Rose: 27:05

I think you're so right to emphasize that that important obstacle of pride and thinking yourself far beyond where you are, and I Think I think that humility is certainly so important, but difficult. You know, it's difficult to, you know, not congratulate yourself for the great job you're doing. And doesn't that just enable you to bypass so many things? Right? You lose so much of the of the grit and the grist for the mill when you see yourself above and beyond the you know the things that every ordinary human being deals with right when we are able to see through our own sense of pride, we're better able to help people and understand everyone has at some point that sense of seeing themselves beyond where they are for 100 different reasons. And you know, this is a serious obstacle, especially in the yoga world today, right? We we've seen so many teachers take an incredible fall because they've positioned themselves to be far beyond, almost inaccessible, so self realized that they're beyond any fault whatsoever. And so when someone raises an argument to say, except my experience was this way I felt hurt and offended and excluded. All of these very real experiences of students calling on someone who's presenting themselves as spiritually evolved, right? There can be a real disconnect. And you know, this is something that's characterized the last decade in the yoga community. Is a kind of reckoning of what kinds of teachers are we looking for, what kinds of students do we want to be, and how can we care for these yogic teachings in the modern world, when we are we are held in the container of capitalism, right? And everyone has to make $1 off of it. And right, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of discussion, I believe, to be had here in our communities, about about proper relationships, proper mentoring, a right student's attitude and space to be able to honestly discuss without the traditional hierarchies that have kept us bound. Right, right? Capitalism itself is its own hierarchy between, you know, from the rich at the top to the poor on the bottom. And truly, patriarchy itself is that ultimate hierarchy where we place some men on a high pedestal while, you know, often the rest of us are, you know, left wanting at the bottom, I see that the yoga community is in that kind of a reckoning today where we, you know, enough people, have seriously studied the yogic teachings to the degree that I think we can unravel some of these power dynamics. I think we can, we can discuss them together. I think we can hold each other accountable for, you know, for our teaching, for our choices, and we can better learn how to work with our students in a way that doesn't always you don't always have to be in that sort of a dominant and submissive power dynamic. I think Westerners in all of our capitalist societies are naturals at that right. We fall right into a submissive role in the teaching relationship and for 100 different reasons, right for women who have been under patriarchy for so many centuries, so many millennia, you know, not knowing how to act As an individual, empowered, mentally alert human being with, you know, who? Who gives themself the respect of having her own agency? Yeah, right, so,

Nischala Joy Devi: 31:49

but how does it come in? Because I, and I agree with everything you just said. It's just, I'm also looking at the other side as a teacher, because what is happening also as the like, there was no question for me as a student with a guru, he was the last word that was it, period, and being who I was, I kind of questioned, which got me in a lot of trouble. But I guess the question that comes to me as a teacher in this time and in this modern time is there also has to be a respect for the teacher, which I'm seeing is not happening. There's either an adoration or who do you think you are teaching me this? What do you know? And I think there has to, because we're not taught to respect teachers as a whole in our society, as we as many other cultures are, then it bleeds in, and if the yoga teacher just acts like a friend or a pal, which some of them, do you miss that student, teacher relationship? So I think this is very tricky right now, as we're switching paradigms, we have to be careful to not get that teacher student relationship thrown out with it, because if we do, everything is lost. Because if we don't learn from those who have been practicing longer, and we think we can invent everything, that's a whole other obstacle that we're talking of pride. People say, Oh, why? I just changed this asana. I said, after this many 1000s of years, you're changing the asana. Tell me, why? What? What is it? Is it because our modern bodies can't do what they did 5000 years ago? So there's, there's a, it's as usual. Here we go again. It's the razor's edge. It's the ability to make that determination and have someone as your student. And can they also be your friend? I think this is the the part. And can you can wreck somebody without them being offended, because that's your job. If you see someone hunched over in meditation and you go over and correct their posture, that's what you're supposed to be doing. There's no offense in that. Do you? So I think it's it gets muddy, is what I'm saying. There's a muddiness that happens. I

Kamala Rose: 34:41

completely agree, and I think that's why dialog is the best option. Dialog within those within the community, of those who are very serious about this, I think that, you know, we've seen, we've seen the way, let's say traditional lineages. Have been received in the United States. It's almost like, you know, the worship and the reverence is so it's just almost over the top religious right and, and I don't know if that was well thought out in advance, to say I respect this asana teacher, for example, as an embodiment of the Divine. I don't know if that student necessarily processed it that way, but that respect just gets kind of it goes from respect, as you said, to adoration. It's larger than life. And when something happens and that teacher acts like a human being, the student is shocked. How could it be that they're how do they eat? They you know, they get grumpy when they're hungry. I don't understand. They're supposed to be perfect. I think we're missing a lot of nuance in there. And you know, this is exactly the point of discussion is, how can we hold our teachers ourselves being teachers? Who would, you know, who aspire to be taken seriously in the work we do? You know, we're serious people. We're teaching a serious subject. There's not many people who can, right? So we're, we're in that position, but you know also to to not be so, you know, to help our students not build pedestals all the time. And it is, it is a razor's edge, and I think it's one of the important dialogs that we're having in the yoga community. Today I'll just read that verse from the Upanishads that you referenced. This is from the also from the kata Upanishad. I'm in chapter three, verse 14, arise, awake. Pay attention when you've obtained your wishes. A razor's edge is hard to cross, that the poets say is the difficulty of the path,

Nischala Joy Devi: 37:07

yeah. And if you look at what a razor is, it's actually fascinating. If you look at it under a magnification, there is a flat edge to it, and then it slopes down on either side, but that flat edge is so narrow a little slip one way or another, anyone who's ever shaved with one would know that you cut yourself, and that's what happens, and that's what happens with this when people go off or a little bit this way or a little bit this way, and I think that's why, As monks, there's no, there's not a lot of variation. I wore the same thing every day. I ate the same thing every day. I did the same prayers. Every day I did the same mass, and as every day, everything was the same. It was like Groundhogs Day. If you ever saw that movie where you get up every day is the same thing and you get to do it over again, is the good news, and you get to make it better. And I think so, that's the thing. It just takes away all the distractions. But most people don't have that. They have the distractions, the constant distractions. There was one of our monks, he would say about distractions. He was very funny. He say, I love to have distractions like noise or something like that during my meditation. He said it gives me something to meditate against. And I thought that was a very interesting observation that he had like that. So there's that, there's knowing who you are. So when the student says to you, you are the most wonderful person, I can't believe how extraordinary you are. You think to yourself, yeah, I'm that too, but I'm also this, and I'm also this, and I think to just accept it, or look at them and say, we're both like that. The light is in both of us, but then you get the other side too. I have students to say, Well, how do you know? What do you what do you know about this? I said, Well, I've just been studying for a long time, also getting the direct knowledge. But we shouldn't have to go through that. We're there. We're presenting something. Take it or not. It's like a buffet. They don't stand over you in a buffet and say, try some of this. Try some of that. You just take what you like, and if you don't like it, don't go back for seconds. But the respect, I think, for a teacher, is very important from the student, but the teacher should know where, where that energy is coming from.

Kamala Rose: 39:54

Yeah, yes, from and from and from. The experience with all of our teachers. Who have shared that and that those like those similarly don't have to be perfect to be to be able to teach the inspired wisdom of yoga

Nischala Joy Devi: 40:13

if you wish for yourself to be perfect, we wouldn't have any teachers. Nothing's

Kamala Rose: 40:17

gonna it might never happen, right? The world might just continue to get nuttier and nuttier. How about if we conclude with this with one more shloka on 241, those who follow the path of yoga attain a singleness and purpose while the minds of others are filled with endless thoughts and choices. Here we are. Here we are talking about that interior, that interior equanimity of the BU of the wisdom of faculty the higher mind. Those who follow the path of yoga are yoked to the booty, right? They're seeing things from a different perspective, right? They've done the work to see things from a different perspective, and in doing this, attain a singleness of purpose, yeah, right. What a contrast to the, you know, to the endless thoughts and choices of the people of the world.

Nischala Joy Devi: 41:25

So when we look at this, the first thing I think, Boy, if you thought the other one was difficult, this is really difficult. So if you do have the grace, and I'm going to use that word, even though we're talking about booty, I like to combine all the yogas together. I don't like them separate. I just, I feel, that's why I call it intuitive wisdom, right? Is it's just that way. So here we have singleness of purpose, and this at least, what I've experienced is that when you get like that, and the others have the endless thoughts, and sometimes you talk to somebody, it's always fascinating to me. I feel like I'm on a wild mouse. They start one way, and then they go off to the right, and then they go off to the left, and then they go off to this, and then they go off to that, and they keep going into different places, because that singleness of purpose escapes them. And this, to me, is what meditation does for us. It allows us to bring that singleness of purpose. So when one experiences that, that's what they see in us a lot, as a teacher, that we're up there and this is all we're doing. We're not making a shopping list, we're not doing anything else. We're just single this of purpose. And they can feel that we had this very interesting incident happened at one of the cardiac retreats. A special guest who, if I mentioned a name, you would know, very famous, decided it was coming and wanted to share deep relaxation with the group. And so we, of course, made that possible, and brought everybody into one room, and I decided to take the relaxation. I thought this could be a wonderful opportunity. So I laid down, and I was feeling very restless, and I couldn't figure out why. And I thought, well, maybe I feel responsible for the rest of the group, because they're, you know, I was teaching them before. Couldn't figure out what it was, but I couldn't relax to save my life. And finally, I just said, Okay, I'm going to open my eyes and look around and see if anyone's in distress. Again, it was a cardiac group, so people could have been in distress or something. And I opened my eyes and I saw the teacher fumbling. His his eyes were open. He was fixing his his shirt, he was his pants. He was moving some papers around. And I realized he was not in that place of single one pointedness that he was trying to bring us to. And the lesson is, which I think many of us know, is that when they we can only take the students as far as we can go. If we go into that place, they can come with us. They may go beyond us, which is always the hope of a teacher, but that's what I'm talking about, at least having that that single mindedness so they can then feel that sense when you're leading them through their practices.

Kamala Rose: 44:57

That's a great example for me. I like. To take the yogas apart, to look at them, each individually. And I think the idea here of Budd yoga, of a concentration, an interior mental concentration, you know, as a as a distinct action that or an interior action or effort that one is making in practice, right? I think I just love to explore that as the, you know, of of a singleness and purpose, a focused and resolute mind, single in purpose, right? And I, I mean, it's a great example, because when, when one has that singleness of purpose and some teaching and guiding others will be very directed, right? And that's an that that is a skill worth a certain degree of admiration and respect to you know, take a subject like the Bhagavad Gita or like a yoga nidra, deep relaxation, and be able to follow that to not get distracted by our phones and the things that are going on in the teacher's personal life, right? The respect for that time together, right? And I think the shloka is making an important point, that without that interior working toward that state of equanimity and interior wisdom, right? The mind is distracted. It's vikship, but it's, it's all over the place, right? It's distracted. It can be it'll jump to the phone. It's messing with its tie. It's all over the place. Who doesn't know this distracted state of mind in our modern world? And it's really the yogi who those who follow the practices of yoga who are able to focus and bring one's effort into that sort of single, pointed goal and purpose.

Nischala Joy Devi: 47:06

I think that's a great place to stop

Kamala Rose: 47:09

at this point. I agree. I think we've had a wonderful discussion today. Thank you so much for all of your insights, nishilla, Davey, and

Nischala Joy Devi: 47:17

you also, gamma rose, thank you. And I think just leaving off with that phrase, singleness of purpose may give you the listeners something to think about until the next podcast. Notice. Just notice when you have that singleness of purpose, when you don't I

Kamala Rose: 47:40

need absolutely thank you so much for listening, friends. Namaste. Namaste.

Lilavati Eberle: 47:50

Thank you for joining us for a women's Gita with nystula Joy Davie and Kamala rose. We would like to express our gratitude for the ongoing support for a woman's Gita podcast and book from yoga gives back a non profit organization dedicated to the underserved women and children of India. Please join us again for our next episode coming soon. Namaste. You.