Neutrality in a Fiery World: Yoga, Desire & the Power of Detachment

In this deep and heartfelt episode of A Women’s Gita, Nischala Joy Devi and Kamala Rose take us into the heart of Chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita, exploring verses 62–64—a section rich with psychological insight and practical wisdom.

Together, they examine how desire leads to attachment, how attachment breeds anger and delusion, and how yogic practices—especially the cultivation of neutrality and tapas—help us navigate our inner and outer worlds with grace.

Key topics in this episode include:

• The chain reaction from desire to suffering in the Gita
• The modern relevance of sense objects and attachment
• Neutrality vs. detachment—what’s the difference?
• The concept of tapas as inner heat and transformation
• Practical ways to stay centered in an overstimulated world
• Navigating female competition through yogic sisterhood
• The cost of anger—from heart health to spiritual clarity

Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or new to these teachings, this episode offers timely reflections on how to be in the world, but not of it.

Transcript

Lilavati Eberle: 0:02

Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita podcast, a modern discussion of the Bhagavad Gita by and for Western women. A women's Gita features discussions on the Bhagavad Gita, the timeless classic of Eastern wisdom, reinterpreted from the perspective of two female teachers, your hosts are nistula Joy Devi and Kamala Rose, who have dedicated their lives to the yoga tradition at a time when women's voices are finally emerging, a feminine perspective of the wartime treatise could not be more timely.

Kamala Rose: 0:42

Namaste. Thanks for joining us for our episode today of a woman's Gita Podcast. I'm Kamala rose

Nischala Joy Devi: 0:51

and I'm Nischala Joy Devi today, we

Kamala Rose: 0:55

are continuing our discussion with in chapter two, with one of the most practical parts of Krishnas philosophical advice on the battlefield of Kurukshetra to the Prince Arjuna. Right today we are picking up on chapter two, verse 62, desiring sense objects causes attachment. From that attachment, personal desire is born. From personal desire arises anger. And this continues, right? So we're going to get into the discussion of this here with nischala, and we're continuing this, this discussion of, how is the yogi to be in the world, right? How is one to steady their wisdom and live in the world? And Krishna offers us this, this idea that when we desire sense objects, this causes attachment. We become stuck to them. And from that attachment, personal desire is born, and it's from personal desire that anger arises. Nishala, we're no we're no strangers to this verse, No,

Nischala Joy Devi: 2:18

not at all.

Kamala Rose: 2:20

Is anyone, is anyone?

Nischala Joy Devi: 2:24

And then we get to 263, from anger comes delusion. So we're, I always think of this as a spiral, one happens, and then the next happens, and then the next happens. And we don't even realize we kind of tumble down into this abyss. Almost from anger comes delusion. From delusion comes loss of memory. From loss of memory comes destruction of discrimination. And from destruction of discrimination, one loses the their ability to find peace. You know, I think if you read that enough times, like even using it as a meditation, you start to realize the pattern. And then perhaps the next time you see something that you start to get attached to it, it may just cause you to stop for a moment and think, Is this something that I want to do? And it can be anything from a piece of cake or pie or a latte or whatever, to a person that you're attached to, or a plant or an animal or a way that you look, or whatever it is. So this attachment seems to be the seed that creates all the other aspects. And the effect is it keeps us from knowing who we are. And I think we have to keep getting back to that to remember all this is just for one thing. All. Everything we're talking about here go stems back to one thing, and that's, do you want to know yourself? And if you do, the attachment has to be acknowledged, and as much as possible, a detachment has to happen from it, or at least a neutrality. Sometimes we can't really detach from it, but we can become more neutral to it. And I think this is really what we're talking about here, and why you spend so much time on it, because it's such an important aspect. And then 264 gives us a but it's always nice to have a butt in there, but the yogi who has the senses under control. So here they're relating this whole i. Idea of non attachment back to the senses, because this is, this is the the heading or the topic we're talking about. It says, but the yogi who has the senses under control can move among sense objects, so we can still enjoy them. And I think this is, this is something that people get confused about. They think the yogi doesn't enjoy life or food or sense objects. Sometimes they can enjoy it even more because there's no attachment to it. I always think of the the incident, and we, I think we've all had this you go to your favorite restaurant and you have in mind already the dish that you love that the most, that they have there. And you sit down and you don't even need the menu. You just say to them, I don't need the menu. And they say, Okay, what would you like? And you say, whatever that is, and then they get this look on their face and they're sorry, I'm sorry we don't have that tonight, and we're so attached to the idea of having that particular dish that even when they hand us a menu with hundreds of items on it, we can't find anything that we want because we're still attached to what we can't have. Now that's a very simple example, but I think it happens to us over and over, every day, and it also happens in our spiritual practice.

Kamala Rose: 6:38

A couple points that you brought up, first of all, the importance of neutrality, and I think that's really important when we're understanding these shlokas and and I think the way you're describing here with this example of not getting what you want or not getting what You expect, is, you know, this is one of the ways that it's revealed to us that even though so many have the, you know, you think I'm a I'm a yoga person, I'm such a good person, I'm not attached. You know, sure, I might like one thing on the menu, but I don't have attachments. And yet you're upset when something happens it doesn't go your way. I think we can look at this idea of sense objects and the attachment that arises from this as being a way of describing ways that we become fixed mentally and expect things right to be your way, right? We love the comfort of our own homes because they are, you know, they're your way. Some people have a hard time even going out because their own habits, you know, their own foods, their own things are. You know, these are ways we're attached not not that. I expect that all you know, you know, I want that pair of shoes. I've got to have them. Yeah, right, I'm sure this is one part. But I think the internal part of being attached is about opinions, right areas where, oh yeah, we can become very self righteous about us. This is the right way. This is a the language of attachment. You're stuck to. You're fixed on the way things should be. And what you can feel that sort of inflammation in the chest, that kind of puffing up of the feeling of personal desire, and not necessarily for acquisitions, right, just for things being my way, yeah. And,

Nischala Joy Devi: 8:52

you know, there's anybody like that, huh?

Kamala Rose: 8:55

Who would, who would be like that? I know, certainly not these two fire signs, no, right? But here we have this, this acknowledgement of myself as a person, and the desire to have things the way I want them to be my way, right? And it's when that is not met, whether you know, situations arise that make that feel uncomfortable, right? Anger arises. This is the recipe for anger, and this is such a practical way of seeing this that, like every single living being on planet earth today, if you do not get what you want, you will deal with a flaring of rajas internally. You'll, you'll feel the heat, right? And I think, just to tie in what you said about neutrality, I think this is an important time to talk about tapas, right? So. So the yogi really is acknowledging the personal desire but withholding from it, right? This causes a rub or a tension, and this friction of what you want and what you are abstaining from having, is the heat of tapas, and this is really the remedy. Is we have to withdraw. We have to see clearly from the buddhi, the higher mind, that you just can't have everything you want. You cannot change conditions to be the way you want them to be. This is the root of suffering. This is why all beings on planet Earth suffer as a natural state of being, when we acknowledge that, when we acknowledge the way we always step in to suffering and despair and disappointment, we can take some control and responsibility for it. And I think this is what these verses really show us that there's a very practical degree of responsibility that we can take once we understand ourselves. And this is the core of yoga practice, learning how to work with the body, mind, feelings, thoughts, emotions, cloudy days, sunny days, as a form of tapas, as heating up the system, burning out the impurities. And so this is why we practice. This is why we show up on in our practice is to to transform this very natural part of every human being into into a different type of perspective, coming back to neutrality, I think you again so rightly brought this up that we don't fight desire just by, you know, we abstain from that, but we've got To do something with that fire, right? And you can't just, right? How do we put out a fire with Earth, right? With sand, right? We've got to find a way to neutralize it. You can't blow it out. That feeds it, right? We're not going to do a counteraction, right? We're going to just neutralize it and learn to find a less inflamed feeling inside yourself. And I think, I think that's the way to deal with anger, is by putting the fire out just with Earth, with neutrality.

Nischala Joy Devi: 12:45

So you mean throwing a tantrum doesn't help? Oh, darn. You know, I guess I learn a lot by looking at children. And I think this is a really perfect one to look at, say, a two or three year old who has developed, at that point a desire, but not the ability to reckon with the desire if it is not fulfilled, and that's why you would you'll see two and three year olds on the floor of a department store with their horrified mothers looking over them throwing a major tantrum because they can't get it. Well, picture us some years later. Maybe we're not laying on the floor of the department store, but in our minds, we may be throwing a tantrum because of something, and anytime that happens, and bringing in tapas, I think was is really so important for us to understand that as a human being, both in body and mind, we are constantly purifying so things are coming out of us. That's the constant tapas that we have, that the cells are rejuvenating. They're dying, they're being sloughed off the mind. Also, we start having things come out of our mind, especially in sleep, that we have no idea where it came from. And the idea is to just let it go, not to try to hold onto it. And this is where I think, again, in the sutras, when it talks about tapas, it really explains to us it's a purification process, and in that purification, what we're left with is is purity, because that's from purification. And even giving the the example of a silversmith, which I think really brings it back to my mind, when they take silver and they hold it over a flame. Them, and it starts to purify. How does the silversmith know that the silver is now pure? And what they say, which is so Bhagavad Gita, it says very clearly that they know it's pure when they can see their own reflection in it. And to me, that's just such a perfect example of tapas, because, and I think it's become almost a common word that we use in yoga. Oh, I'm going through this tapas now. I'm I'm having this tapas. And even the practices bring us that heat, that tapas of purification. But if we don't remember that we're accepting the purification, we're accepting the tapas, sorry, as a means for purification, we start to think that the world is against us. We don't remember that we're we're going through this for a reason, because as we come out of it, we're going to be glowing. We're going to be more beautiful. It's almost like a woman in labor, you know, she goes through this unbelievable pain, but what she gets at the end that's the reward, and I think it's like that with us. We're a lot calmer, we're a lot kinder. You start to look at the little things, not necessarily the big things, and also, and I'm not again sure here, but the word that we use for attachment in in the sutras is really, it's, it's really not attachment. Sorry, not attachment. Non attachment is really a vida, yeah, and vairagya is not just detaching, but it's actually not seeing color, not seeing the difference, actually having something colorless that we take and we hold, and that means that we don't put a value on it, we just go back to that neutral point. And if we can return there after every event, we have more of a chance of staying in that place and understanding that this too shall pass it, but it depends on how we judge it and how we live with it. So the more that we accept it as a means for purification, I think the more we're able to keep our senses under control, like they're talking about in the Gita, and then we can move 264, says, but the yogi who has the senses under control can move among sense objects free from attachment or aversion. So I think we have to bring that back into the aversion, because people think if they're averse to something, then they're not attached to it. But it's actually the opposite. When I was in the living in the monastery, public display of affection was not encouraged if I can. That's a mild way of putting it, and but some of us are just naturally friendly people, and we just like to hug people. It doesn't have anything to do with anything sexual or gender related, or it's just we love people. And there was one monk that she was so afraid to get involved in any way. She would wear a button that said, Don't hug me. And what this did, and I watched people go up to her and start to hug her and see the button and immediately back off. It almost caused a fear in them that, to me, is the aversion side. You're going too far with it. So what if you don't want to hug, put someone say, I'm sorry. I just don't, I'm not a hugger. That's all something like that. Or you hug them and then you leave them, it's gone, it's finished. So this is such a crucial part for us to analyze. What are we attached to? How minute is our attachment that we like this kind of sugar in our coffee or not that kind of sugar? I've seen people throw tantrums because they have the wrong sugar or the wrong milk. It's not oat milk, it's almond milk instead. So all this is all in there,

Kamala Rose: 19:46

in talking about our personal preferences. And you know this rarely, rarely do people examine the interior space of one's personality in an object. Of way. And I think this is really what the Gita is asking us to do in chapter two, is to to hold space for a place of examination. You know, as nice of a person as you are, we, we all have preferences and attachments. It's not that, it's, it's a this, a psychological, spiritual depth dive, looking under the hood to see, how does it work, right? How does it work between you and the world and other people and the greater sense of mystery that we're all a part of, that we in this chapter concentrate on as the soul, as the self, right? As you said, this is what it's all about. This is the subject we're exploring, is how to know that, how to know that self, how to realize that self in daily life, right? I you know when you were speaking this July was really it was very outstanding. How you know this message in the Gita, you know, as contrasted with the Yoga Sutras, right? This Krishna is giving us this image, that of a yogi who has their senses under control and is moving amongst sense objects, right, is moving in the world, right, with senses under control, and is able to be free from pre preferences or right attachments by way of desire, right? Gotta have it or aversion. Gotta stay away from it. Yeah, exactly. This is how we can live in the world, in peace. And I think this is one of those really important verses that says the yogi is able to be in the world, but not of the world, right? And those, and I think you're so right to focus on this just a little bit longer that I I think that aversion is one of the more powerful ways that we are attached to the world. And, you know, we can internalize that so much that, you know, the way I read the world, the way I see the world, the situations I encounter, what I see on television, what I learn of about the world, right? That can trigger. We call it triggering. This is an aversion, right? Triggering would go into fear too. Fear causing that the outside world cause such an interior response that what happens? The cycle starts right, the that anger arises, and out of anger comes delusion. And this very important part, that out of this delusion, what is the delusion about, is you forgot who you were, and you thought you were that anger, and you went all in to the drama and the and the hormones and the hot chemistry in your body, and you're ready to step up on a soapbox, right? You've got a lot to say about that thing. Yes, right? So then what happens? You lose your memory. You forget, yeah, I forgot. What I forgot I was doing tapas and purifying right and discrimination, the ability to even tell this is lost right. We lose the ability to find peace.

Nischala Joy Devi: 23:36

We think we're right is the other thing. And I think what I see a lot is someone will come to me with an issue, and they'll say, this is really disturbing my peace. And okay, let's let's take a concrete thing, like the news. Let's take the news. So at times it gets better or gets worse or worse, or let's put it like that, it's really never better, but worse or worser. Now we have a choice. Every television I've ever seen, every computer I've ever seen, every radio I've ever seen has an off switch. They don't just stay on all the time. It's our decision whether we listen, etc. So the attachment comes at least a lot of what I'm seeing when people feel I should listen to it, because I should be informed. Here's that should again, I should be informed about what's going on. The problem is if you take in anything, especially news that may not be so uplifting with a mind that has not been purified. Right? It makes it worse. So the ability to have a clear mind and to understand what's going on from all sides is not something that's available to most people. So what happens? They listen to it, they make it into something. And then it goes right through what you were just talking about, the the loss of memory, the delusions so that, and then the fear this is going to happen. This is going to happen. When you listen to a news program, I would say there's probably a huge percentage, and I'm not going to give you a number, because I don't want people to say, oh, it's not that high. But there's a percentage of it that is a projection. It has nothing to do with what is actually happening or happened. And the we take this then and it causes fear. So when I say to somebody, is it disturbing your meditation? And they say, Oh, I can't meditate with this going on at that moment coming out of our own mouths. Stop, listen to what we just said, and then look what is your priority? Can you listen to that and still do practices and still be a kind, loving person? Or if it stops you from meditating, you've just lost the ground that you've already gained. You You just, you just gave up the greatest gift in your life that you could have had. And this is why, I think traditionally, monks have always withdrawn from the world, because it's very difficult to take that in at the same time, especially now with 24 hour news cycles, you can turn on the computer or your phone anytime and get the news. So this is all, I think, with it, even though, 1000s of years ago, when this Gita was written, there was no computer, there was no cell phones, etc, etc. But what if we're taking that idea of realization of the true self, and that's what we want to do. We've have to stop the outside world from intruding. We have to let it be there for invitation only when we're inviting the world into our life, not that it's bombard us.

Kamala Rose: 27:39

And I think you make a good distinction there between what it sounds like when it's when it's taking your practice away, when it when it is when it's gone to the point of obscuration of the self, and all you can see is the anger and frustration, right? That's a that's a that's a way of being honest. It doesn't have, it doesn't say, like my spiritual life is costing me engagement in the world. No, we're talking about mental states, right? And as a yogi, be monitoring those, knowing what kind of an effect it has on me. Mean, it doesn't mean that we don't engage in the world. In fact, that's what the Gita is all about. Is now take up your bow, Arjuna and fight right? We stay engaged. We have to learn how we can stay engaged even when outer situations cause confusion like this and right? So we, you know, we can. We can look at the, you know, the cultural situations that we all share, right? We can also see that we have personal situations like this. We have crazy makers in our lives that, no, no, you can't pay you can't get involved in that. It makes you crazy, takes up all your time. You forget about your practices, and you self righteously march into the fray of the dramas of life, battles of the dramas of life, in a way that's the Duryodhana part of ourselves who is just stubborn and kind of enjoys being angry and is not interested in doing any practices that lead to the self, right? But we are, if we're to understand ourselves as a yogi, we can look through the eyes of Arjuna, who's trying to be better, right? Trying to he is. He's trying so hard to be better. And I think this where it's so appropriate, what you said, Nisha, that you know, we you can be in the world, and you can be engaged, and you can come to the point where this doesn't derail you. Yeah, the same way we, if we look at that on the left. Level of attachment of raga, right? So we're the duality of raga and Deva SHA here, attachment and aversion, right? We could say the same, you know, a wise person could walk through, you know, an ice cream store with, you know, fancy clothes and jewelry and all the stuff you want with A Fistful of Dollars. You know, could walk with equipoise through that and just be like, look at all the beautiful things here. I can enjoy them, but I don't have to hoard it. All right, this is a state of mind where we can handle being in the world, but we've got to know what our triggers are. You know, don't, don't go to a food court at a mall when you're hungry and you're you're sad, you know things like this. Don't, don't know yourself. It's the basic message here and know ourselves in relating to an ever changing outer world that is really presenting us every day with with aversive situations, and that the Gita is message here, chapter two focuses on This important message that what happens on the outside, called senses and sense objects, right? Called the world on the outside, it absolutely creates your internal state of mind, absolutely. You know, these two are symbiotically linked, and very rarely does one consider the relationship between the outer world and the inner states of mind. And if we can take nothing else away from chapter two, in this kind of big picture discourse on reality, understanding the mind and the yogi who's in it, but not of it, right? If we can take one thing, it's Krishna proposes that we live in the world in a way where we engage in self inquiry, and if we know the self, if we if we have the self as the goal, as the reality that's already here. Just sometimes you're, most of the time, you're thinking about something else, right? We're building new habits to realize the Self. That's what yoga is, right? This is why we practice. Is to purify. Yoga is tapas. It's a method of heating up the system with practices so that we can see clearly who you really are without the self. Why would you? You wouldn't need to do practices? Yeah, other than to know the self, it right so,

Nischala Joy Devi: 33:00

and most people don't. I think that's the other thing, what what we're doing, what we're talking about, is something that most of the world does not engage in, and if you try to entice them, it comes to mind when I was in the cardiac study, because we had to convince these people that had no interest in yoga at all. To them, it was something you ate with cereal in the morning. It was as a white cream yogurt was the same as yoga. That's that's where we started. And these were mostly men, and they really had no interest in this at all, so trying to show this to them is how when they get angry, it affected their heart be and why did they get angry? Because there were a tape attached to an idea or an object. That's why people get angry. You think it's your right to be right, or your team should win, or whatever it is, how trite and insignificant we make these huge things into big deals, and we try to show them that this has An effect on your heart, even as simple as taking your pulse after deep relaxation to see how it's changed. So I think it's important for those of us who practice to really practice on every level, to be able to bring in the idea that let me look at this before I do this. How is it going to affect me if I go out for pizza at 11 o'clock at night, how is that going to affect my sadhana the next morning? If you say I don't care, then great, you've made a decision. But if you do care, you. Have to adjust when you have the pizza, so maybe you'd have it at six o'clock instead of 11 o'clock, and see how that goes. But we're always like you were saying that Yani yoga, that that ability to observe ourselves and to see cause and effect, it's so basic, it's an all of nature, cause and effect. Here we are looking, if I take this, how does it affect if I just had a fight with my friend and I sit beside in the altar? Matter of fact, it's in the Bible, Jesus even says that don't come to the altar to pray to Me until you've made friends with your brother. Why would he say something like that? He says it because he knows if you sit down and even in front of a beautiful altar, no matter how beautiful you make it, your mind's gonna sing. He said this. He said that he wasn't right about that, I was right, your mind is already disturbed. So to calm the mind, and I think this is behind everything that Krishna is saying, if the mind is not clear, if it's not pure, everything that comes in will be caught in this snare of attachment, it will be caught in this snare of aversion, because that's the way it's been doing it all along. What we're trying to do is the hardest thing you can do to control the mind like that. Or I won't even use the word control. I would use more of a term direct the mind, because people have a hard time with the word control, and I understand why. But if we're directing it, put it in a positive place, change it. And that's where a lot of the practices come in. So and the other thing I would say, while you're doing practice. If any of this comes in, don't let it close the door. Don't allow it to come in to your meditation, to your asana practice, to your pranayama, because what it will do if you bring the negative thought in the practices enhance everything, even the negative. So I think we have to be really careful where our mind is, and that's why, I think traditionally, they say, get out of bed, don't talk to anyone, get washed, do your cleansing, and go right into the meditation room, because otherwise, if you start looking at your phone if you, of course, they didn't say that 5000 years ago, but now, if you look at your phone or you start to talk, then that's what you're going to be meditating on.

Kamala Rose: 37:51

Really, really important right away, when the mind is clear. And in particularly, I know, in regards to pranayama, I think that's one of the reasons that pranayama is not taught so much, is because it is so powerful, and ordinary people really struggle with, you know, you it's hard to come in, out of work to a yoga class and get ready to do a period of pranayama, because it's so hard to keep that, to keep those attachments at bay, right? The things that just keep rolling through your mind, you can't stop thinking about it. You take the past into the present moment with you, right? And, you know, I think, I think reading some of these verses from, you know, from that feminine perspective, I think you're so right to bring in heart health, right? How, how? What is the cost of anger and self righteousness? Oh, we can see it. You can see it's measurable. Yeah, you know, so, so this really practical part of the Bhagavad Gita, you know, as women, these are the places where we're petty and we're competitive with each other, and we can, I think there's a level where we can, in our self examination, identify how we internalize patriarchy in a way that, you know, the competition between women is always notable, right? I think, I think one of my big takeaways from the Gita is that we are supportive to each other. We once we realize that this is the sort of habit that's formed over generation after generation after generation of women being oppressed through patriarchy, is we fall into a competition. Mission for resources with other women. And you know, today we live in a modern world. We don't think about such primitive things. But you know, in in many lifetimes, if we believe in reincarnation, we it would have come down to the prettier women would have been fed, right? And so on and so on and schooled. And we see this across the world, that girls are often not vaccinated, they're not sent to school. They're the competition for resources is fierce, and as women reading the Gita today, I think this is notable in this that we have a way to do pratipaksha Bhavana to reverse that, and instead of feeling competitive with each other, we can consciously support each other, right? We can say no to the patriarchy. We can outsmart the patriarchy by being kinder to each other and supportive of other women. And I found for myself that, you know, you you brought up the idea of this kind of core idea, how this is always translated, that the senses are brought under control, right? You know, I would say the the senses are trained, right? They're just, they're trained to new patterns, to new habits. You You know me as a dog person, and I've had the opportunity to train many dogs, many stubborn dogs, and you get into this world of habits and making new habits, and the way we make new habits, and you know, for a dog, this is learning to teach them how to be in the midst of a world that's full of sense, objects that they want all the time they can smell 10,000 times stronger than you can they can hear, you know, miles away, their senses are so acute. You know, you don't smell what's underneath that rock, but they do and right? And you are when you're walking, I'm you're very much like the buddhi the higher mind, who's got to keep the bigger picture and say, Keep walking, keep walking. Leave it right and tell those senses, let's keep walking. Let's not stop let's not roll in it, let's not pick it up. Let's just keep going. Keep moving. And you know, this is how I get a sense of this. And for women, you know, to do something different, to stick it to the man, let's help each other. Yeah,

Nischala Joy Devi: 42:51

I agree 100% I mean, what you're saying is so true. And I never understood that, because if there's not a sisterhood, then why are we what? Why are we doing all this? There has to be some connection with hearts and understanding, understanding how we're done. I just wanted to make one analogy, because I was smiling when you were talking about women. And again, being in the medical field all these years, I saw how women are dissed in the medical field. Anything that that they can come in that's not obvious, is considered their mind and recent, well, fairly recently, within the last so many years, they actually found that when there was there's something called Broken heart syndrome, and it was always poo pooed, because the women came in with it, and they said, or sometimes they were found actually dead from it. And they said, Oh, it's just an emotional thing. And a doctor in Japan actually found that the heart change changes shape. When it's in distress, or even in happiness and joy, it changes, literally changes shape. And so if the heart does that physiologically, can change shape. Imagine what it does on a subtle level to have these encounters and have things that don't don't work well for us. So I think that we're really hitting something important here, each person has to make their own decision. How much do you want to be in the world and in the world, not of the world? And how much do you want to be of the world? Do you think that you have enough power? Or at this stage of your life, to change things. If you do go ahead, the world could use some changing, but if it's just going to aggravate you, cause you to have aversion or attachment and keep you from the sacredness of your own practice, you really need to ask yourself, why?

Kamala Rose: 45:29

And that's how the world needs many Yep, right. As someone who's entering, kind of re entering the world, is this a delicate balance of knowing how much you can take right what is what is right effort, what is right participation for you, and I think so right to to bring that up and ask us as Yogis to just be honest with ourselves, there's no right and wrong,

Nischala Joy Devi: 45:56

no right or wrong. It's just what do you want. And then when you decide what you want, don't criticize others for what they are choosing. Because again, and I keep bringing this up because chit didha, very few are courageous enough to really want to embrace this path completely.

Kamala Rose: 46:20

That's a great place to end. Nishchala Devi, thank you so much for your wisdom today.

Nischala Joy Devi: 46:26

Thank you. Kamala rose, this was fun, always

Kamala Rose: 46:31

delightful to discuss. Bhagavad Gita from a woman's perspective. Thanks to all of our listeners, thanks for being here, and we'll talk to you next time. Namaste. Namaste.

Lilavati Eberle: 46:47

Thank you for joining us for a women's Gita with nishla Joy Devi and Kamala rose. We would like to express our gratitude for the ongoing support for a woman's Gita podcast and book from yoga gives back a non profit organization dedicated to the underserved women and children of India. Please join us again for our next episode coming soon. Namaste. You.