The Cave of the Heart: Understanding Personal Dharma

Dive deep into the profound wisdom of the Bhagavad Gita with Kamala Rose and Nischala Joy Devi as they explore the hidden truths of personal dharma. This transformative podcast unravels the complex layers of spiritual calling, individual purpose, and conscious action through a unique women's perspective.

Key Topics:

• The interconnection of karma and dharma
• Discovering one's authentic life path
• Breaking free from patriarchal limitations
• Spiritual growth and personal transformation
• Conscious decision-making and intentional living
• The role of meditation in understanding personal purpose
• Balancing individual needs with collective responsibility

Join these experienced yoginis as they decode ancient wisdom, sharing personal insights and practical guidance for navigating life's most challenging choices. Whether you're seeking spiritual understanding or practical life direction, "The Cave of the Heart" offers a compassionate, enlightening journey into self-discovery.

Transcript

Kamala Rose: 0:39

Welcome to a woman's Gita podcast. This is Kamala rose, and this is nischala Joy. Davey, thanks for joining us today. We are continuing our discussion of the Bhagavad Gita from a women's perspective. Right now, we're at the beginning of chapter three, and we're going to talk about some of the main ideas that we're bringing with us from Chapter Two as we encounter this third dialog between Krishna and the warrior Arjuna. As we left off in chapter two, we were presented the beginning, not only with the opening battle scene and Arjuna confusion and despair at what the right thing to do is right. We also met Krishna and began the dialog on what we can simply call the the nature of reality, right? The nature of the real self and everything that is impermanent, right? So as we enter chapter three, we're bringing with us some important philosophy, some important ideas. And so this is where nishtula And I would like to continue to explore this liminal space between chapters, to dig in a little more deeply to some of the key terms and ideas that we're bringing with us into our reading of Chapter Three. First of all, this chapter is called karma yoga, and so we bring the idea of karma with us. And also coming from chapter two is the important idea of dharma and how Dharma and karma relate to each other. You might remember that the very first word of the Bhagavad Gita is dharma, and it states the intention of this text to answer a question for us, what is dharma? What is it to live in Dharma? And how can we understand that and live in Dharma in the midst of karma, right? This, that isn't that the question. So just to, just to review a little bit karma is that repetitive cycle of cause and effect, right? Dharma is a principle of, let's say, a principle of right action, that, you know it's like, it's like, almost like gravity. It's a law of nature. In terms of the Bhagavad Gita, it's, it's not something that is belongs to a person. It's a divine or a universal quality that really belongs more to the, you know, the larger metaphysical world, the dimensions of you know, we might think of that as, you know, the divine of God of angels, right, in the Vedic worldview, we're looking at the original story of Prajapati, the original person, a great act of sacrifice that births the world where the one becomes many. So here, in chapter three, we're going to be talking a little bit more about that creation myth and what it has to do with dharma. This is, this is one principle of how Dharma is infused into the creation of reality through this original sacrifice, right? There is a principle that there is a right thing to do in every moment, just as in that original act of sacrifice, where the one becomes many. So that idea of letting go of the personal in in order that the welfare of the whole, yes, everyone could be upheld, right? So karma and dharma, one's individual action, cause and effect, right? We could almost reduce it, although I hate to reduce these big, beautiful ideas into too simple of terms, but we can almost say that karma is the individual action, and dharma has more to do with the collective. Of the welfare of everyone and everything, beyond just human beings, right into the welfare of the Earth, the animals and our relationship with the divine. So coming into chapter three, we're bringing these big ideas to discuss and

Nischala Joy Devi: 6:03

I think we also have this idea of karma. We talked about this being good or bad, whereas Dharma, I'm not sure people think about it in the same way as good or bad. And there is an individual Dharma, the Swa Dharma that that comes into it too. So I think trying to disengage one from the other is very difficult. They're really melded into each other. Your your dharma affects your karma and vice versa. Excuse me. So when we start to talk about this, I think that the most important thing is not to worry about what happened. We can't change that. We talked about that different kind of a karma that comes. But when you're when you're in your dharma, and that's a conscious thing, it's not something that you unconsciously follow. There's a certain amount of enlightenment to use, a word that we have to have to understand why this next step is happening, what is going on next, and yet, there are people that just follow and don't understand it. I saw an amazing clip the other day of a 10 year old boy playing the violin like most virtuosos could never do, and he just got up, and his hands were flying, the bow was flying, and people had their jaws slacked because he was so extraordinary. And from our vantage point right now, we would say that's his Dharma, something he did before brought him to that. So Dharma doesn't have to be only in the spiritual realm, but also, we hear of young doctors, even that are so brilliant. So this so it's it's connected with karma, it's connected with reincarnation. It's all fixed in together. And I think it's hard to pluck one out and say, This is the leader, because it all comes together. And you know, sometimes you even say to yourself, Why am I doing this? I don't really want to be a whatever it is. And then someone may who's knows about this, may even say it seems to be your Dharma to do that. So to understand what does that mean, then it means that these collective energies came together, karma, past lives, drawing people to you now who support that? Imagine if you were a genius, but your parents didn't support it. Either they couldn't afford it, or they didn't believe in it. They would rather you be do something else that makes reasonable amount of money, but you can't get away from it. And that, to me, is the strength of Dharma that you you really can't get away from it. No matter what you do. It keeps coming to you. So

Kamala Rose: 9:36

this is this right to point this out.

Nischala Joy Devi: 9:38

This is the Gita, you know, and it's trying to explain to us, because it's really not, and I hope this is coming through that it's not a strict philosophy. It's more of a living book. It's more of something that the teachings are given so we could live this way in our lives,

Kamala Rose: 10:03

and sometimes, again, you're so right to point out it's a little messy. Yeah, it's really hard. It's a lot messy. Yeah, I'm just gonna be honest. The Gita is there's a lot going on at the same time. It's not easy to reduce it to one thing and say, Okay, I totally understand this text now. Yeah, because continually, we're dealing with these, these complicated ideas and how they interact with each other. It's like, it's a lot and you know what you're describing. I think a lot of our listeners will be able to. Relate to very much as a calling, right? The things in life you felt were imperatives

Nischala Joy Devi: 10:46

exactly, good, right? Good, good way of describing it, yeah, that's what we say. It's a calling. Yes, exactly. Yeah,

Kamala Rose: 10:55

right. We, you and I have in common a calling to each and it's, it's as much as you might try to turn away from it, right? I know I've wrestled with it my whole life, right? As much as you might want to do something else, it keeps coming around, and you feel that it's an imperative, that somehow there is an ethical ought involved with Dharma in finding, discovering your Swadharma?

Nischala Joy Devi: 11:26

Yeah, I think going even a step further with the two of us Kamala, we both became monks. And people always say to me, why did you decide to become a monk? And my answer is always the same, I never decided it. I didn't grow up thinking, oh, what I want to do is become a monk. First of all, I was never raised in a tradition where they even had them. So I was actually raised without any tradition at all, and to suddenly want to do that. It has to be dharma. It has to be it. And I always tell people I did not decide. It decided and pulled me into it. It was never really a great decision. So I think that if we really look and everybody's lives, not monk or no monk, why do you fall in love with a particular person. One of my pet scientific experiments, I can say, or studies, more of a study is, I love to observe couples. What brought those two people together? There was so many other people that you could have been with. What drew you to that person? What was it and then, if it was really right, 60 years later, you're still with that person. I mean, that's an amazing thing. It's not like your brother or sister that you were born with. You chose this person, that person chose you why? So I think all that is in the Dharma, all that is, you know, and and some, some of us would not choose someone unless they were also walking in that same dharma. I know a lot of my friends have partners that are not interested, and how difficult that makes it,

Kamala Rose: 13:29

this idea of our deepest impulses, right? Our our deepest senses of identity. Right? It's we can, we can think of this in terms of our personal Dharma, the things that you are so drawn to, and there's no real explanation. I think the Gita famously says, you know this. This is your nature. Choose, you know why? Avoid it? Right? Everyone is compelled to act out of their nature this way. And when we look at the choices and who we fall in love with, or the professions that we choose, the paths that we choose, both you and I choosing that monastic path, I think, I think something that we've found very much in common is that we were just very intensely fell in love with yoga. And that kind of awakening that comes when you find this, this philosophy, this way of seeing the world, of living, of practice, of meaningfulness, of belonging to a higher calling, right? Where now your personal action, all your personal actions, are being dedicated to the welfare of everyone, right? This is monasticism. This is the purpose of it, and what called the two of us to this. And I think in time, knowing that that original calling, that original Dharma, came to take different forms, right, and called us out of the monastery to continue that dharma and continue to serve a greater good. One of my deep impulses that finally just became so much is that I've all I'm an artist, and, you know, I've always been an artist, but you know, the life in the monastery is a busy working hard kind of. Life, there's no, you know, personal expression. Nobody's pausing to paint a picture or make a collage or anything like this, right to write a book or to express themselves in that way. In fact, I think you and I also agree that there's a certain part of monasticism that you know there is quite patriarchal in the suppression of the individual. Yes, it doesn't have to be that way, right? There could be a much softer way to dedicate all of your actions to the welfare of others without having to suppress gifts and things like this. So you know, in holding true to one's personal Dharma, it does require an adaptation to the conditions of your life, to time and space and what is presented now in this idea of karma and this collective cause and effect, this repetitive cycle of of one's own individual life course, and then how that relates to other people and how it relates to the systems in our world. Are you and I are also have a lot in common in that we feel very responsible, in a way, to, you know, to help with this very changing, turbulent time in our world, and right to help with the all of the insights that this beautiful yoga philosophy gives us that Bhagavad Gita gives us about understanding cycles of time and understanding one's personal responsibility to the collective society right, and exploring ideas that there's no one right answer for everybody. There is only the balance in one's own heart. I wanted to share this quote from the Mahabharata Yudhishthira says the truth about Dharma and duty is hidden in the Cave of the Heart. Therefore, that alone is the path along which the great have trod.

Nischala Joy Devi: 18:13

Wow, that's beautiful. That's beautiful,

Kamala Rose: 18:17

right? So yudhishtira, the son of Dharma, right? Always doing the right thing, always balancing action with a feather in that way, yeah, looking for the right thing.

Nischala Joy Devi: 18:33

What this is so important to understand, and we really don't have an equivalent. I don't think in our society, maybe saying it's a calling, but if we say that, most people think it's elitist, it's only a few people that are called. And we're told that. I think it's the Bible that says many are called, fewer chosen. I don't really agree with that. I think we choose ourselves. I think we make our own decisions. And how do we know if we're in our dharma? I think that's probably a question people ask me so much, how do we know we're in our dharma? And I always answer it Similarly, similarly in that if you're in your dharma, your life is easier. There's an ease that comes even if it's difficult physically, even if it's difficult in some ways, like monasticism was very difficult physically on the physical body. You didn't get a lot of the creature comforts, but you knew internally that this was the right thing. So whatever happened, the mind overrode anything that was going on with the body. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just the way we were trained to do that. And even to this day, I was telling someone the other day about during the pandemic, what I was doing, that I made all these online courses and wrote two books and all that. And they looked at me and they said, You must have an incredibly strong mind. So I think this is something that the mind can override the body if it needs to. And for dharma, it seems like that's what happens. It's like it pushes obstacles out of the way. Like, why would. I meet an Indian guru and take monastic vows. You know? How would that happen? Living in San Francisco, you know, I should be an Indian Rishikesh or in the Ganges or somewhere in the mountains, but because it was my dharma, it drew it to me. And I was Drew, drawn to it wherever it appeared. So I think this is something, if we start to look at it as Dharma, we start to see patterns that maybe we didn't see before. Why did I walk into that restaurant at that particular time and the only table that was empty was to the man I was going to marry, right? What? How did that all happen? Karma that then led to the dharma of being his wife and him being my husband, or whatever partnership we've formed. So I think that it's, it's more common that than we really think of and I think it's something that's, it's pretty extraordinary, and it's, it separates us a lot from that needing to make these decisions that I see people agonizing over, should I do this? Should I do that? I think one of the things that the Gita is teaching us is don't try to make a decision right away. Pull back. Take all these things into consideration, your dharma, your karma, your your situation, and also by meditating, the Dharma becomes clearer. We begin to know this is our dharma, whereas someone else was just do something and didn't understand why they were doing it. So I think what the Gita does it makes it a conscious movement toward Dharma, instead of an unconscious, which a lot of people have,

Kamala Rose: 22:46

but or expect it to be a sort of unconscious, spontaneous out of nowhere, something happening to you, Revelation like, oh My gosh, I finally have found my bliss. Yes, exactly and truly. I think, you know, one of the things I was thinking when you were telling the story about how you met your husband, and we're talking about very natural flow of life, yeah, right, it's, it's not like some horrible thing you're avoiding and right? Or, you know you're you're busy, right, having a fun life, and you've put off doing the responsible thing, nothing like that. Yeah, right. It's accepting the patterns in your life, the things that you've been called to do, as the story that's hidden in the cave of your heart, yes, unraveling itself. And I think we come to points in our lives where we're able to be more reflective of that. I think your your point about taking the time to think if we can take one thing from this, you know, this battle scene is that these, these people, have taken the time to stop and discuss, to contemplate the nature of reality, the nature of the authentic self, how they work together, and only then do they resume action, yeah, yeah. And I there's, a way that we're given permission. I think as women, it's important to recognize that we seldom feel that we can give ourselves that time for introspection, because so many people depend on us, right? So I think sometimes when we think about karma, it's as an individual, right? We can see that in the Gita, this battle of krushetra is obviously Arjuna and the Pandavas karma, right? This and it's with their family. This is a all these people, all of this intermingling of people has come together on this battlefield. Right? We are also inter dependent on others, and especially as women, we've rarely actually been able to choose our own path. Right? Our path has been, yeah, someone's wife or someone's mother, always someone's daughter, supportive roles, playing supportive roles in a larger story. So when we say, stop and think and meditate and sink in and question the nature of reality, right, doubt what you thought about yourself, give yourself the freedom to explore. To reinvent your thoughts. This is, I think, what both of us take from the Gita and what we're so eager to share with our our colleagues in the yoga community, the women who you know, have to change all the pronouns in this text, and they have to try to recontextualize some of these very patriarchal ideas. And when we look at karma and we look at Dharma, these are main areas where women have, in terms of karma, not had the the freedom, the human rights to choose one's own path in the world, we've played those supportive roles. Yes, the women's movement around the world, women's movements around the world have enabled us to have a different freedom of choice in this time, and as far as Dharma is concerned, in the world of the Gita, there was one Dharma for women and it Yeah, and it's called wife and mother, yep, period the end and daughter,

Nischala Joy Devi: 26:54

yep, yep. And if men had their way, it would

Kamala Rose: 26:59

still be that way? Yes, yes.

Nischala Joy Devi: 27:03

You know, see this? I think the brilliance of this, too is the very first chapter, actually before the first chapter, still in the Mahabharata, we're told stop. We're in the middle of a battlefield and everything stops. To me, that's such a strong teaching, because can you do that in your life? You're in the middle of a situation that you have no clue which way to go, or you don't want to go in the way it's moving. Can you pull out and stop and just observe all your choices. Put it out there without that, all that emotionalism. Can you look at and say, Okay, these are my choices which way fulfills more of my dharma, which way will be something that will elevate me afterwards, rather than take me back to that same place where I am. So I think the brilliance of it, that it's right in the beginning, he stops everything right in the center of the two armies tells us right away what to do. Stop. I always say to people, don't just do something. Stand there, right instead of the opposite, which we're always told, don't just stand there, do something. No, take that time. Take that time to stand there and look around. How will look at the different outcomes. How, if I do fight in this war, what will happen if I don't fight in this war? What will happen if I take my child to daycare today and drop them off for the whole day? How will I feel at the end of the day? How will the child feel? So you start to use a technique or a path of yoga, the Yani yoga, more you incorporate into your life. So it's not a foreign body. It's something that you use, along with loving your family and your child and your whoever else you're with, that's the bhakti. But also the mind has to be in it. The mental capacity has to really look what are we doing here, and how are we doing this. So I think that each time we move to a different sloka, it's helping us inward to make these choices, both for our spiritual growth and development, and then to take that spiritual growth and development and bring it into the world. I think that's the only way the world is really going to be transformed, certainly not by wars, certainly not by trade agreements, certainly not by putting people down and sending them back to where they belong. We have to learn that this, this person, is no other than my own self. Everything changes, and the criticism of not being engaged enough in the world that I often get I said, You don't understand. I'm engaging in the world in a different way. I'm trying to help people raise the consciousness that. Living in, to embrace the world in a totally different level, and then that changes the world. So here we are back in the karma chapter. We're back in Karma Yoga, because when you get that spiritual energy, what do you do with it, you have to help make the world a better place. Otherwise, what's the point?

Kamala Rose: 31:07

And as you brought up the gyana yoga and the bhakti yoga, these are the yogas of the Bhagavad Gita, right? We're going to talk about a lot of different yogas. And again, like we said, it's a right? It's a couple balls we're juggling at the same time when we read the Gita. But I think one, one thing it's important to consider in our understanding of karma is from a Guyana point of view, a more theoretical point of view, because, because because we're going to be talking about that, we've been talking about it in chapter two. Right? This sort of, what is the theory of how this works? Right? With karma, we have this really important idea of motive, right, the why? Right, we can't really uncover what our Why is unless we have a time to pause and investigate now, what caused this action, right? Why? Why am I why? Why, and How will I act this out? Right? So all of our, all of our karmas, come back to an original point of intention, and the Gita in Krishnas dialog with Arjuna, we're going to be at we'll ask ourselves over and over again, why? Why do I put my willpower into X, Y or Z, right? And this is what Arjuna questions is Is this? Is this the right exertion? Is this the right motive for for this exertion of effort or energy, right? So from this idea of intention or sankalpa, we now it's out of this that karma action is generated by personal willpower into action. It can take time for that action to come all the way full circle and to turn into results, right? It doesn't happen in a day. It takes time, right? So we can have an understanding of the way these the nature of action, these ideas that are handed down to us by wise meditators, right, authenticated generation after generation of Soul Searchers who look to understand, you know, why are you doing that? Right? I think a great example is, you know, having the idea to take a trip, right? Someday you get it in your brain, right? I have to go to Italy. I must. Or you get it in your mind. I had one last year where I just absolutely had to go see that Yoko Ono show in London before it closed and I oh my gosh, to the best of me, I couldn't let that go, right? I love Yoko Ono. I love conceptual art and getting to go see this retrospective. Wow. It ticked a lot of boxes for me, right? So I have, I have a why, and eventually it turns into an action. I make a decision to buy a ticket, right? And it's really buying that ticket that we can say is the action, and it's not going to be for, you know, six weeks later, until I get on the plane and go and take the trip and then fly home and come back home and we can say that the fruits of that action are, I'm continuing to discover that right. So this chapter asks us to dig deep and understand why we act. Right? What's the premise of action, why we choose these things? Right? Is it? Is this a deep, deep soul motivation to do this? Right? I know for myself as an artist, seeing art like that absolutely a dharmic thing, absolutely important to me. But it's that theoretical understanding of the way action works, and the way we relate to the world, how we make decisions. One of the great teachings of the Upanishads asks us to watch your thoughts for they become your words. Watch your words because they. Become your actions. Watch your actions. They become your habits, your Sam scaras, or your habits become your character, right? That's swell. Bahava, your who you are, and your character then becomes your destiny. It's your contribution to the world. It's the way you spent your time in this lifetime, right? So understanding karma is so important, understanding Dharma is so important. And these are the gifts that the Gita has for a patient heart.

Nischala Joy Devi: 36:19

I think that's patience of the heart is something that's so important. And you know, I think one of the questions to ask yourself when you're going through that process is, who will this benefit? And the answer, I think, that you really want to come to is that it will benefit more than you. Because even if you think it's going to benefit only you, if you are a person who allows their light to to move past their own being to share that with others. Anytime your light is strengthened, anytime it is given what it needs for food, then life goes then, then it continues and different places in the Gita, it talks about definitions of yoga, but one of the places that it really talks about the idea that it should that a perfect action, which we're talking about now with karma, Yoga should bring benefit to some and harm to no one. And I think this is probably one of the things that I've lived my life following and anytime I have to make a decision, I always take this because sometimes it doesn't bring benefit to everyone. And you have to really understand that some decisions just don't even the simplest one of not letting your child go on where they want to go at that particular time, they may get very angry at you, but you know the reason? Because hopefully you have a little more wisdom. So when we look at this, we and ask ourselves the question, Does this bring benefit? And if it does, does, then you have to ask the second one, does it bring harm to anyone? So because everything we do, even if it seems like it's good karma, and I'm not saying there's somebody up there with a clipboard every time we do something, and then make a little slash on their their clipboard, if you want to believe that that's fine, but what happens is there's an energetic accrued accruement of these karmas, and you you want to have a little bit more on the altruistic side than you want to do on the selfish side. And then eventually the altruistic side grows and grows and grows, and you are committing a perfect act that brings benefit to some. It doesn't say everyone and harm to no one. So really, having that in mind, and I think we would probably act a lot less have actions, because if we really thought about all of our actions first, you know, one of the things that that comes first to my mind are sports games. You know, we talk about sportsmanship, and, you know, we shake hands in the beginning and we shake hands at the end and do that, but really we want to win, that's, that's the main thing. And instead, and we, we even say, oh, it's not if you win or lose, but who play, how you play the game. Most people really don't believe that, because you see them out there and they get really upset if their team doesn't win, but what about looking at the other people who have lost? Do you really want to make someone feel like that? Wouldn't it be better to have them smiling and laughing and being happy so the world we have created with without the benefit of hearing the teachings of the Gita, can be really enhanced if, when we add the teachings of the Gita,

Kamala Rose: 40:32

the insights into the nature of action make us so. It give us a definite wisdom in action, this intention of doing the greatest good right, helping the most and hurting the least. We live in this time where we have access to so much information and something like an example of taking that flight to London, right, the the cost to the environment every flight we take, right? I think it can be, it can be hard to balance that out. It's almost like, you know, if you're a neurotic recycler, like I am, you take it so personally you don't want to do anything because you don't want to hurt anybody, right? But right, it has to be a balance. That idea of punya karma, meritorious karma, things that lead towards good actions, punya karma and a punya karma, right? Like you could use an example, like gambling on those sports games, right? Taking, trying to get more than what you put in. Those are ideas. You know, where you're you're trying to cheat the system somehow, right? These, this is a constant theme here. You know who's punya, who's meritorious are those Pandavas and who's a punya doing terrible things, or those Kauravas, right? So we have this dichotomy of the, you know, the choices that we make. We have it illustrated in this story, and it brings us around to this, you know, this important idea that, you know, it's not so much the action itself, it's the why, right? All of these warriors are on the battlefield the same way. They're all armed. They're all ready to fight to the end. But we have some that are there because they're trying to do the right thing, and we have others that are there and they're trying to rip someone off. Yep, right. So we have corruption, and we have the ideal of serving a greater good, upholding humanity. It really drives home the point that the personal is political, yep, right the way, the intention, the why of how you act, and the you know, the things that you choose to do out of that intention, they express that. They express dharma. They express who you are and what you mean. So I, you know, I'm thinking about that question you brought up earlier that how people ask you, how can I be sure I'm doing my dharma? And I think it's, I think there's no one right thing to do. It's a matter of balancing what's right right now and continuing to balance what is right right now. What action can I do out of my intention to serve the better? Yeah, right. I'm a Pandava. I'm with the good guys, right? We want to uplift the world. And again, this is something I actually am only realizing right now that came together from my trip to see Yoko Ono, was really realizing the personal is political, right? The way we express ourselves, the art we make, the statements we make, the podcasts we do, we're expressing what is the our calling in that way. And anything you do, whether it's making lunch for somebody or it's, you know, buying the people behind you a coffee in line. You know, whatever it is that you're doing, it's the meaning that is in the cave of your heart, that is the Dharma that's the right thing to do. Yeah,

Nischala Joy Devi: 44:33

I so, so true. And what you what you were just saying about how it changes because it's, it's it's a situation, and the situations are different at different times. Let me just tell this really quick little story that's that's just so funny. A friend of mine, her daughter, went as an exchange student to India, and she was living with a family, and she came one day, and they gave her a room. She spent the night, and she came down for breakfast the next morning, and the mother came up and she said, Are you okay? She said, Yes, I'm fine. Why? And she said, I was so worried about you. She said, why? She said, Because you were sleeping all by yourself, and they just couldn't imagine somebody would be comfortable. She said, Tonight, why don't you sleep with my son? And my friend looked at her and she said, in my country, I would be arrested for doing something like that. So here's a situation where. One person, it was normal and actually comforting to another person, it was horrifying in a way. So everything has to be reassessed, and that's why the time out is so important. Is this situation like the last one? Is my dharma going to take me into this? Or is this something that is not really for me right now? So it's that constant assessing, which I think, I think tires people out, and that's why they just say, forget it. I'm just going to do whatever feels right at the moment, which is a good thing, but you have to have the consciousness expansion to understand what is good at that moment and at this moment, I think it's a good place to stop.

Kamala Rose: 46:34

Thank you. Nischala, important points to consider, yes, yes, yes, and we'll look forward to seeing you all next time on a woman's Gita podcast. Bye for now. Namaste.

Nischala Joy Devi: 46:48

Namaste. You.